Ludington City Council February 13, 2017: Official's Admit Lead Pipes are in the City's System - The Ludington Torch2024-03-28T19:17:19Zhttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/forum/topics/ludington-city-council-february-13-2017-official-s-admit-lead-pip?xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI meant the graph Aquaman spo…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2017-02-23:4689834:Comment:3415982017-02-23T02:07:22.000Zjfc123http://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/jfc123
<p>I meant the graph Aquaman spoke of about the PM Bayou. I sure hope someone will share it with me. In my opinion this could all be related? The stuff that was put in the dump east of Madison, capped off? God only knows what went in there and the off gassing of naturally occurring natural gas has no smell! If there were heavy metals, also chemicals used to harden steel like cyanide? The natural flow by looking at DNR mapping shows a northerly flow out of the pier heads. If only we could be…</p>
<p>I meant the graph Aquaman spoke of about the PM Bayou. I sure hope someone will share it with me. In my opinion this could all be related? The stuff that was put in the dump east of Madison, capped off? God only knows what went in there and the off gassing of naturally occurring natural gas has no smell! If there were heavy metals, also chemicals used to harden steel like cyanide? The natural flow by looking at DNR mapping shows a northerly flow out of the pier heads. If only we could be addressed and not attacked? We are all in the same game! DNR tested the ground under the bayou, not the water. Also, they NEVER said it was not contaminated, just not to the extent of a brownfield, thank God!</p>
<p></p> I have never seen this graph,…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2017-02-22:4689834:Comment:3421152017-02-22T19:01:21.191Zjfc123http://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/jfc123
<p>I have never seen this graph, does anyone have a link to it? This was something the council came up with? Any more info on this would be appreciated! Thank you.</p>
<p>I have never seen this graph, does anyone have a link to it? This was something the council came up with? Any more info on this would be appreciated! Thank you.</p> I don't expect they have grea…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2017-02-22:4689834:Comment:3418342017-02-22T18:27:31.683ZXLFDhttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/TheLudingtonCitizen
<p>I don't expect they have great records of their piping put into the ground before 1950, most cities don't and it's a shame. They surely have not provided anything throughout this mostly one-sided lead conversation, other than their recent admissions of lead goosenecks found throughout the system. As Plamondon has noted, the goosenecks generally lead to galvanized piping, so if you see this form of plumbing at where the city puts the cutoff valve (so they can cut off service to your house…</p>
<p>I don't expect they have great records of their piping put into the ground before 1950, most cities don't and it's a shame. They surely have not provided anything throughout this mostly one-sided lead conversation, other than their recent admissions of lead goosenecks found throughout the system. As Plamondon has noted, the goosenecks generally lead to galvanized piping, so if you see this form of plumbing at where the city puts the cutoff valve (so they can cut off service to your house if need be) extending towards the street, there's likely a fair chance you still have a lead gooseneck connection.</p>
<p>Stump makes a very valid point about the water meters, quite often they are inside the basement of houses, and thus the diagram is not entirely accurate in that case. It's a common practice to do that, but it still does not belay the fact that the meter is part of the city's property, as is the plumbing up to the cut-off valve. As <a href="http://crgov.com/Faq.aspx?QID=453" target="_blank">this link to another city utility shows</a> and details: </p>
<p><strong>Whose responsibility are the water lines in my home? </strong> The Town owns and maintains all water service lines throughout the Town and to the point of connection at your property line. Your property will have a meter pit or curb stop with a valve and is the property of the Town. Lines from this valve into your home as well as all of the lines in your home, including sewer, are the homeowner’s property and responsibility.</p>
<p>Keep in mind, even though your water meter may be located within your property, it belongs to the Town. Tampering or damage to the meter is prohibited and reasonable access to this meter is required.</p>
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<p>I could not see how our municipality could legitimately claim that the lead goosenecks under the street in front of your house that they installed with your ancestors' tax dollars is your responsibility to deal with. I certainly can't find such a rule or claim in the city code. </p> All of the homes that are par…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2017-02-22:4689834:Comment:3421122017-02-22T03:46:14.433ZWillyhttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/willy
<p>All of the homes that are part of the lead testing process in Ludington should be inspected to see if any of the piping system from the main to the house contain lead piping of any kind. An accurate calculation of the lead content of Ludington's residents water cannot be correctly measured unless all the different types of service piping to buildings are included in the testing. My guess is that most of Ludington's older neighborhoods have a portion of piping which is lead. It's possible…</p>
<p>All of the homes that are part of the lead testing process in Ludington should be inspected to see if any of the piping system from the main to the house contain lead piping of any kind. An accurate calculation of the lead content of Ludington's residents water cannot be correctly measured unless all the different types of service piping to buildings are included in the testing. My guess is that most of Ludington's older neighborhoods have a portion of piping which is lead. It's possible that many have solid lead from the main to the building. Also most cities claim responsibility for all piping from the main to the meter which in most cases is inside the buildings. Even though there may be lead piping from the main to a building it's possible that no lead or very small amounts will be detected because most pipes are coated on the inside with minerals and debris from the water running in the pipes. Most of the lead will be found after water has been sitting in the pipes for long periods of time and that's why running the tap for several minutes is recommended in order to clear the line before consuming it. I'm sure the water personnel have informed the Government officials of the huge cost in replacing the lead portions of the water piping and this is why we get al of the ho humming and stall tactics in finding out what is the true amount of lead in Ludington's water. If the water officials do not know what pipes are lead or where all the "goosenecks" are located then they have done a poor job of record keeping and statistical data accumulation.</p> The drawing is not really cor…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2017-02-22:4689834:Comment:3421112017-02-22T00:18:00.639Zstumphttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/stump
<p>The drawing is not really correct as it shows the city is responsible to the meter. I own a number of houses in ludington and all have them in the basement. If the city is responsible to the meter , who do I get a refund from for the lines I have replaced from the curb shut off to my houses. To my knowledge, the property owner is responsible for sewer lines to the main as I have done that also.</p>
<p>The drawing is not really correct as it shows the city is responsible to the meter. I own a number of houses in ludington and all have them in the basement. If the city is responsible to the meter , who do I get a refund from for the lines I have replaced from the curb shut off to my houses. To my knowledge, the property owner is responsible for sewer lines to the main as I have done that also.</p> The graphic in the article sh…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2017-02-21:4689834:Comment:3419082017-02-21T22:13:06.095ZXLFDhttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/TheLudingtonCitizen
<p>The graphic in the article shows that the utility provider is responsible for the plumbing between the water main and the shut-off valve, these are all generally found in the public right-of-way, which our city claims ownership of whenever it helps their cause. According to Darrell Plamondon, who I have found to be fairly straightforward, the goosenecks were connecting galvanized pipes to the water main, i.e. they were part of the city's plumbing. Plamondon to my knowledge, has never…</p>
<p>The graphic in the article shows that the utility provider is responsible for the plumbing between the water main and the shut-off valve, these are all generally found in the public right-of-way, which our city claims ownership of whenever it helps their cause. According to Darrell Plamondon, who I have found to be fairly straightforward, the goosenecks were connecting galvanized pipes to the water main, i.e. they were part of the city's plumbing. Plamondon to my knowledge, has never passed a bar exam, so I would have to believe his understanding of the law is due to either the city manager's or city attorney's reasoning.</p>
<p>For Aquaman's point: have you ever heard of John Shay or Dick Wilson 'fessing to anything the city has done improper? They are always too busy blaming the victims of their brutal cops and policies.</p> Yes, and if they get any furt…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2017-02-21:4689834:Comment:3420112017-02-21T21:26:31.135ZAQUAMANhttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/AQUAMAN
<p>Yes, and if they get any further cornered on the subject, maybe they can come up with another graph, like the P.M.Bayou. That one showed that the city was only 29% responsible, and the rest fell on PM Twnshp., State of Mich., and Drain Commissioner, and a few more. Another Kathy Moonbeam incident of further collusion, and irresponsibility. Bravo right?</p>
<p>Yes, and if they get any further cornered on the subject, maybe they can come up with another graph, like the P.M.Bayou. That one showed that the city was only 29% responsible, and the rest fell on PM Twnshp., State of Mich., and Drain Commissioner, and a few more. Another Kathy Moonbeam incident of further collusion, and irresponsibility. Bravo right?</p> The property owner I believe…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2017-02-21:4689834:Comment:3421072017-02-21T19:31:35.496Zstumphttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/stump
The property owner I believe is responsible from the water shut off not the main. maybe I'm wrong. When I replaced my water main to my house, I excavated dirt down to the shut off valve at the street edge of the sidewalk. The city shut off the water valve upon request so I could remove and replace my main supply line. That hook up was to a brass valve that was connected to a black iron pipe from the main. No lead was see so that goose neck must be at the main. One thing to note is that the city…
The property owner I believe is responsible from the water shut off not the main. maybe I'm wrong. When I replaced my water main to my house, I excavated dirt down to the shut off valve at the street edge of the sidewalk. The city shut off the water valve upon request so I could remove and replace my main supply line. That hook up was to a brass valve that was connected to a black iron pipe from the main. No lead was see so that goose neck must be at the main. One thing to note is that the city has water department records on each property dating back into the 1800's.