Ludington City Council Meeting July 27, 2015, pt. 2: Fishbeck and Falsehoods - The Ludington Torch2024-03-28T08:39:25Zhttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/forum/topics/ludington-city-council-meeting-july-27-2015-pt-2-fishbeck-and-fal?commentId=4689834%3AComment%3A300574&feed=yes&xn_auth=noJunno has his head buried too…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2015-08-12:4689834:Comment:3005872015-08-12T19:10:29.705ZXLFDhttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/TheLudingtonCitizen
<p>Junno has his head buried too far in the sand to worry about the water conditions. He figures that John Shay's non-compliance with the Clean Water Act for four years (and likely more, since I'm sure this was brought to the city manager's attention well before the last NPDES permit expired) is what we need. </p>
<p>But there are repercussions; these fish may be a symptom of what may be happening to us now, and it won't necessarily come out in countywide statistics immediately. If Jasper's…</p>
<p>Junno has his head buried too far in the sand to worry about the water conditions. He figures that John Shay's non-compliance with the Clean Water Act for four years (and likely more, since I'm sure this was brought to the city manager's attention well before the last NPDES permit expired) is what we need. </p>
<p>But there are repercussions; these fish may be a symptom of what may be happening to us now, and it won't necessarily come out in countywide statistics immediately. If Jasper's source(s) is reliable and knowledgeable of past trends, it could have some weight.</p>
<p>In the meantime, knowledge that John Shay and our other city leaders knew about this and spent tons of money on contractors (legal, cost of service, engineering, etc.) to mitigate it without going through council to get their okay and to make it public is, in my view, criminal on their part and a disservice to their fellow citizens.</p> Junno, from a citizen's stand…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2015-08-12:4689834:Comment:3008152015-08-12T17:49:50.660ZAQUAMANhttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/AQUAMAN
<p>Junno, from a citizen's standpoint, can you explain the two unexplained contaminated fish I just saw in an earlier post? Why is this sudden appearance happening now? Do you actually care if people die that consume it? Do you care about this local environmental question? </p>
<p>Junno, from a citizen's standpoint, can you explain the two unexplained contaminated fish I just saw in an earlier post? Why is this sudden appearance happening now? Do you actually care if people die that consume it? Do you care about this local environmental question? </p> Junno,
Once again, you need t…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2015-08-12:4689834:Comment:3007322015-08-12T15:27:21.163ZXLFDhttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/TheLudingtonCitizen
<p>Junno,</p>
<p>Once again, you need to practice what you preach to others. The page you are showing is an NEC permit, here's a description of <a href="https://www.michigan.gov/statelicensesearch/0,4671,7-180-24786-245076--,00.html" target="_blank">NEC Permits</a>, and how they differ from the NPDES permit. Having a valid NEC permit (if you are even required to have one) is a whole different things than a NPDES permit.</p>
<p>Being that you were computer-savvy enough to navigate to that page…</p>
<p>Junno,</p>
<p>Once again, you need to practice what you preach to others. The page you are showing is an NEC permit, here's a description of <a href="https://www.michigan.gov/statelicensesearch/0,4671,7-180-24786-245076--,00.html" target="_blank">NEC Permits</a>, and how they differ from the NPDES permit. Having a valid NEC permit (if you are even required to have one) is a whole different things than a NPDES permit.</p>
<p>Being that you were computer-savvy enough to navigate to that page and take a screen shot of it, you undoubtedly saw at the page directing you there that the NPDES permit for the Ludington WWTP was expired at the link directly above it. Enjoy swimming at Stearn's Park, where dog poop may be the least of your worries.</p> Looks up to date to me... tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2015-08-12:4689834:Comment:3006632015-08-12T14:48:34.270ZJunnohttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/Junno
<p>Looks up to date to me... </p>
<p>Looks up to date to me... </p> tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2015-08-12:4689834:Comment:3007312015-08-12T14:46:08.278ZJunnohttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/Junno
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1494162507?profile=original" target="_self"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1494162507?profile=original" width="505" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1494162507?profile=original" target="_self"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1494162507?profile=original" width="505" class="align-full"/></a></p> But not per my request does i…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2015-08-12:4689834:Comment:3006582015-08-12T13:22:47.381ZXLFDhttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/TheLudingtonCitizen
<p>But not per my request does it have the mention of a "flag" or come from the state agency, the MDEQ. </p>
<p>The link, though dated does seem to indicate that those given the 'major' label on a quarterly non-compliance report (QNRC) by the federal EPA cannot be downgraded to a minor until the non-compliance is resolved. </p>
<p>Junno, in the other thread you berate one of our newer members for being imprecise and/or reckless, but your three attempts to show what a "major flag" designation is…</p>
<p>But not per my request does it have the mention of a "flag" or come from the state agency, the MDEQ. </p>
<p>The link, though dated does seem to indicate that those given the 'major' label on a quarterly non-compliance report (QNRC) by the federal EPA cannot be downgraded to a minor until the non-compliance is resolved. </p>
<p>Junno, in the other thread you berate one of our newer members for being imprecise and/or reckless, but your three attempts to show what a "major flag" designation is by the Michigan DEQ have all failed miserably. </p>
<p>Maybe you should just go over to the COLDNews or MCP on Facebook and enjoy your morning coffee while looking through the latest court arraignments and other Pollyannaish community news. It's easier to respond without being corrected there.</p> Let me google that for you :)…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2015-08-12:4689834:Comment:3005742015-08-12T11:46:12.344ZJunnohttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/Junno
<p><a href="http://www.epa.gov/npdes/pubs/owm0142.pdf" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Let me google that for you :)</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>And per your request it's only 20 years old :)</p>
<p></p>
<p>Once again, freedom of speech is a powerful tool. If your going to use it you should really take the time to insure you are using it correctly and responsibly or else you are just doing everyone a disservice. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.epa.gov/npdes/pubs/owm0142.pdf" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Let me google that for you :)</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>And per your request it's only 20 years old :)</p>
<p></p>
<p>Once again, freedom of speech is a powerful tool. If your going to use it you should really take the time to insure you are using it correctly and responsibly or else you are just doing everyone a disservice. </p> You are right about one thing…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2015-08-11:4689834:Comment:3008062015-08-11T19:41:38.490ZXLFDhttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/TheLudingtonCitizen
<p>You are right about one thing, Junno, this document was from 1990. The stamped date at the top sure looks like 1980 though, doesn't it?</p>
<p></p>
<p>Perhaps you may want to review the MDEQ website and see whether you can find something that explains what a "major flag" is. I've been through and couldn't find anything, however, there was a strong correlation between cities and businesses without NPDES permits and those that had "major flags". For that I took it as a reference to "red"…</p>
<p>You are right about one thing, Junno, this document was from 1990. The stamped date at the top sure looks like 1980 though, doesn't it?</p>
<p></p>
<p>Perhaps you may want to review the MDEQ website and see whether you can find something that explains what a "major flag" is. I've been through and couldn't find anything, however, there was a strong correlation between cities and businesses without NPDES permits and those that had "major flags". For that I took it as a reference to "red" flags-- and if it isn't defined thusly it should be explained in some public document less than 25 years old and issued by the state's permitting authority.</p> 1. it would be 25 years, 2015…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2015-08-11:4689834:Comment:3004902015-08-11T19:27:22.940ZJunnohttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/Junno
<p>1. it would be 25 years, 2015-1990= 25 but your only a math major, wouldn't expect you to actually be able to subtract :)</p>
<p></p>
<p>2. according the the EPA's website these are the documents and forms they currently use when filling out permits. If you would like to take issue with them being 25 years old then feel free. </p>
<p>1. it would be 25 years, 2015-1990= 25 but your only a math major, wouldn't expect you to actually be able to subtract :)</p>
<p></p>
<p>2. according the the EPA's website these are the documents and forms they currently use when filling out permits. If you would like to take issue with them being 25 years old then feel free. </p> Aquaman,
Take some pictures a…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2015-08-11:4689834:Comment:3004882015-08-11T19:21:08.875ZXLFDhttp://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/TheLudingtonCitizen
<p>Aquaman,</p>
<p>Take some pictures and let others take a look before the DNR comes around, maybe bring them to the next council meeting. Not that they wouldn't feel at home with the encysted flounders on the council, but it might bring the point home that the public health and safety is at risk.</p>
<p>Let the DNR know when they come that you or your pumpkin friend will be very interested in their conclusions.</p>
<p>Aquaman,</p>
<p>Take some pictures and let others take a look before the DNR comes around, maybe bring them to the next council meeting. Not that they wouldn't feel at home with the encysted flounders on the council, but it might bring the point home that the public health and safety is at risk.</p>
<p>Let the DNR know when they come that you or your pumpkin friend will be very interested in their conclusions.</p>