Guess it's not over...

[Robert]

http://www.ludingtondailynews.com/news/59925-zba-examines-wind-deci...

[Marty Redman]

I take it you are or have been an elected official Roman?  If that is so, why don't you boldly use your Christian name and lend some credibility to your statements. 

 

Public service can be a noble profession, but too many people choose it as a profitable career, and really become out of touch and sometimes hostile to the people that have voted for them and pay their wages.

[Roman Around]

Marty - a very insightful comment (about many choosing it as a career and losing sight of the 'public servant' attitude).  I am NOT nor have I EVER been elected.  I do, [for the last 15 years] however work in the offices and witness your frustrations on a daily basis.  As such, it would be VERY unprofessional of me (I am not looking to add to the unemployment quandry) to PUBLICLY comment.  To say that 'they' (the elected ones) NEVER are misinformed would be an understatement; but, to just assume they continually are being 'gamed' politically just strengthens my assumption that too many in the 'public audience' attend out of anger and resentment instead of being armed with the relevant information.

[Willy]

Roman

I've had a lot of experience dealing with city officials, law enforcement and the courts. There are always more than one way to look at a situation, however regarding the situations discussed on this forum I have seen no justification for the actions the city has been taking and no explaination for their decisions. I understand you are seeing things from the inside but you really need to put yourself in the shoes of the citizens in order to grasp the full reality of what they are being subjected to by those they have elected and some they haven't elected. And don't forget that your paycheck and benefits come to you on behalf of the taxpayers.

[Roman Around]

Willie - believe me when I tell you that I am well aware that (your) tax dollars feed me.  However, you didn't elect people to respond to your every whim and whimper everytime they take action on something that you (and they) may not fully understand.  You elected them to represent you to the best of their ability.  And - don't forget...I live somewhere too...and I am in your shoes in my own community...it's just that I understand the parameters that elected official must stay within to do their job.  In a 'best-case' scenario, the 'goverment' should solicit as much citizen involvement as possible...but in the end...they have to make a decision one way or the other...based on the information at hand whether a select 'few' agree with it or not.

[AQUAMAN]

Roman, I do take exception to your analysis. Usually, it's the public that is well informed, and the recent video on another thread proves just that! Yes, sometimes people come in, after weeks or months of frustrations, to attend, and by then their anger and resentment are prevalent. Doesn't mean that they are not well-meaning and caring, it just means that the last straw in the camel's back is finally broken, that they are overtaxed, over-regulated, and too often ignored for the basic reason of too many governing think the public is stupid, and are out for their own power play, not to do the work the public sent them there for. Put that into your pipe now, and inhale this time, so it sinks in.

[Roman Around]

AQ - "Yes, sometimes people come in, after weeks or months of frustrations, to attend, and by then their anger and resentment are prevalent."  You are probably correct for the most part...after missing most of the substantive conversation.  From someone who sits in the audience for various communities for not less than 60 'public' meetings each year as part of my job, I find the opposite to be more relevant.  I do see many caring individuals, generally complaining and unwilling or unable to offer alternative solutions to the current topic because of their lack of information.  I wish that were not the case (and, it isn't ALWAYS the case). Then again - IF your premise is more accurate, I would expect to see your name on the ballot....it takes a strong stomach to serve the public, trust me!

[XLFD]

Here at the Ludington Torch, we try not to generalize about what is happening within the public sector, we try to get specifics and get as close as we are allowed to get the truth out of an often-recalcitrant Ludington government and the public records they allow us to see. 

In similar manner you will find that in most of my 'local' threads on City Hall issues, I try to provide as much as I can get out, whether it's damning or exculpatory. 

For example, I would love to find out that each City Councilor is legally supposed to be getting paid $3600, instead of the $50 that the City Code dictates, which can only be changed by ordinance.  I have asked the FOIA Coordinator for this ordinance that has raised the pay rate by a factor of 72 and re-asked, yet there is no such ordinance according to him.  What are you supposed to think? 

With your experience, Roman, I hope you help us see why this and many other of my probes into Ludington City Hall is alright instead of highly unethical.

[Roman Around]

XLFD - I wish I could speak precisely about your issue with the pay.  Like it or not, MOST City Codes can be ammended by a simple resolution of council absent ANY public participation.  I would guess that many years ago (in the thriving economy days) even the public servents realized that a pultry salary of $50.00 needed to be updated to reflect the current competitive economy of the time.  Most 'cities' were organized and have charters that are many decades old and accurate recordkeeping was not as well revered as it is today - and, rightfully so.  I think that your information gathering is not only 'ethical' but probably even warranted.  I wish I could tell you how many times I have had to respond to a FOIA request by stating that "the document requested does not exist".  I don't know what methods you're using to gather the information, but 'please' and 'thank-you' are still a major component in my vocabulary.  Hope this helps explain my concern - and happy to help any cause so long as the goal is for the good of the many and not to simply satisfy the desires of the few.  Remember that we live in a true democratic republic (in my opinion), for if we lived in a democracy, it's just 51% of the thugs telling the other 49% what they may or may not do....according to Mr. Benjamin Franklin.

[XLFD]

"MOST City Codes can be ammended by a simple resolution of council absent ANY public participation."

 

What country are you from Roman?  This is patently illegal and a violation of the Open Meetings Act.  In case your local community hasn't heard about that, here's the most relevant section of that law that invalidates your claim   MCL 15.263

 

Smartypants, the ethical or alright statement was about City Hall conduct.  Pardon the missing or dangling modifier.  Thank you.

[Robert]

Nice touch...

 

http://arcadiawindstudygroup.org/?utm_source=awsg-all&utm_campa...

[AQUAMAN]

It should be noted that another thread on here concerning CAT problems in the COL was addressed at their last meeting. A lady emphatically made a great case for not having to report her neighbors for feeding strays, and the other man, one that started these COL complaints about cats also voiced the fact that the problem is now under control, thus NOT requiring a YES vote on the new ORDINANCE. The new Ordinance then one would think, just logically, would be tabled for more committee work, or even more sensibly, be cancelled. In just the next few minutes the Ludington CC unanimously voted, yes with Wanda's vote too, to pass that sour pill. Now, what does that tell us about people of the COL coming to meetings, voicing logical and reasonable concerns, spending a part of their valuable free time in the evening to attend, then be told to basically, shut up and sit down, this agenda has already been carefully thought out, and it's going to pass, irregardless of it's stupidity and unnecessary implementation. Is this what you're referring to as good governing ROMAN?

[Wanda Marrison]

Aquaman  there has not been a vote taken on the "CAT" ordinance. The last meeting was only a first reading and discussion on it.