Public Pizza with Marina Sauce - The Ludington Torch2024-03-29T11:22:54Zhttps://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/forum/topics/public-pizza-with-marina-sauce?feed=yes&xn_auth=noLake, I'm coming to a similar…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2020-08-19:4689834:Comment:11597502020-08-19T14:03:22.907ZDu Wrighthttps://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/dianne
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Lake, I'm coming to a similar understanding of our current city manager, unfortunately he can talk out both sides of his mouth. Seemingly empathetic to the citizen at coffee, but like Willy says, he's bound by his bosses. That may be a flaw in our government style of a CM appointed by the mayor at the council's recommendation. I think deep down MF may feel that way, but can't make much difference in a thoroughly entrenched administration. I was just…</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Lake, I'm coming to a similar understanding of our current city manager, unfortunately he can talk out both sides of his mouth. Seemingly empathetic to the citizen at coffee, but like Willy says, he's bound by his bosses. That may be a flaw in our government style of a CM appointed by the mayor at the council's recommendation. I think deep down MF may feel that way, but can't make much difference in a thoroughly entrenched administration. I was just contemplating how difficult it would be to be a young man working in with an administrative staff of momma bear-like staff (at city hall), especially those used to getting their high-falutent mentality way through manipulation (I'll spare more graphic details).</span></p> Interesting point, X, and goo…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2020-07-13:4689834:Comment:11029582020-07-13T04:27:48.246ZFreedom Seekerhttps://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/FreedomSeeker
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Interesting point, X, and good way to better see who is coming and going into the "public" marina by picketing. I wouldn't be surprised if it is becoming more of a "who-you-know" type of entrance than a "pay-for" entrance. Why heck, it might just become another fringe benefit for city-hallers. It takes just one to know someone who has a slip and many could enjoy the sunshine in the finest taxpayer funded marina during the Covid shutdown. Another potential…</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Interesting point, X, and good way to better see who is coming and going into the "public" marina by picketing. I wouldn't be surprised if it is becoming more of a "who-you-know" type of entrance than a "pay-for" entrance. Why heck, it might just become another fringe benefit for city-hallers. It takes just one to know someone who has a slip and many could enjoy the sunshine in the finest taxpayer funded marina during the Covid shutdown. Another potential misuse of public funds and public trust in Ludington city hall country club. </span></p>
<p></p> Good posts all.
X, would it b…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2020-07-13:4689834:Comment:11027282020-07-13T01:30:29.399ZWillyhttps://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/willy
<p>Good posts all.</p>
<p>X, would it be a good idea to keep using the pool instead of picketing? If they issue a citation they would have to prove your presence would be an illegal act and if your correct that would prove them in the wrong.</p>
<p>This may be a good way to inform people exactly of what is going on and how badly the city acts towards the people who actually pay the bills. I appreciate your efforts, time and sacrifice.</p>
<p>As far as the city manager is concerned, one of his…</p>
<p>Good posts all.</p>
<p>X, would it be a good idea to keep using the pool instead of picketing? If they issue a citation they would have to prove your presence would be an illegal act and if your correct that would prove them in the wrong.</p>
<p>This may be a good way to inform people exactly of what is going on and how badly the city acts towards the people who actually pay the bills. I appreciate your efforts, time and sacrifice.</p>
<p>As far as the city manager is concerned, one of his jobs is to please his bosses on the council and if he wants to remain Ludington Manager he has to do a lot of butt kissing to keep his job so we have to realize which side of the equation he’s on,</p> I sometimes put the 'is' in n…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2020-07-12:4689834:Comment:11026362020-07-12T23:55:49.853ZXLFDhttps://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/TheLudingtonCitizen
<p>I sometimes put the 'is' in nuance.</p>
<p>Do you realize that as a current slip holder at HVM you currently have the ability to invite me or others as guests so that we can enjoy the clubhouse and pool?</p>
<p>Last couple of days, I've picketed the swimming pool area twice each day, I don't know if you've heard about that, Epictetus, I had a sign with "public marina = public access" on one side and "this isn't a private yacht club' on the other. It's kind of depressing seeing these people…</p>
<p>I sometimes put the 'is' in nuance.</p>
<p>Do you realize that as a current slip holder at HVM you currently have the ability to invite me or others as guests so that we can enjoy the clubhouse and pool?</p>
<p>Last couple of days, I've picketed the swimming pool area twice each day, I don't know if you've heard about that, Epictetus, I had a sign with "public marina = public access" on one side and "this isn't a private yacht club' on the other. It's kind of depressing seeing these people embarrass themselves by classifying me as an Obama-supporter, somebody on public assistance, or a wannabe freeloader. Somehow reminding them that it's actually a public marina and I'm a taxpayer that helps fund the $80,000 budget deficit the city has this year because of HVM makes them think I'm a commie sympathizing member of Antifa or something. </p>
<p>I have found that these elites have no knowledge of the 14th Amendment and no empathy to the common folk who pay the bills of their clubhouse and swimming pool. Pretty sad, but at my heart I'm a teacher and willing to instruct these snobs in what's up, even when I can't go past the white picket fence they have separating them from the unwashed masses.</p> To put a positive spin on thi…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2020-07-12:4689834:Comment:11024612020-07-12T21:24:26.967ZDu Wrighthttps://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/dianne
To put a positive spin on this discussion, I have felt positive changes with Mitch Foster in his respect toward the citizen, so much more than the previous city manager, who (among others in the administration) it seems despised citizen input and looked down on citizens as secondary class. That's another set of classes that was, 1. The city, 2. The citizens. It is a big job to work with a staff who has not been trained to treat the citizens with respect. When those at city hall get paid two to…
To put a positive spin on this discussion, I have felt positive changes with Mitch Foster in his respect toward the citizen, so much more than the previous city manager, who (among others in the administration) it seems despised citizen input and looked down on citizens as secondary class. That's another set of classes that was, 1. The city, 2. The citizens. It is a big job to work with a staff who has not been trained to treat the citizens with respect. When those at city hall get paid two to three times the average local pay rate, and get benefits unknown of by locals, then it is only too easy to look down on the poor people who pay the taxes. Now with this public marina issue, we have another opportunity to either despise the public and cut them out, or consider them with respect. This sounds a bit like a two-…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2020-07-12:4689834:Comment:11023752020-07-12T20:22:24.056ZFreedom Seekerhttps://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/FreedomSeeker
This sounds a bit like a two-way conversation, but please let me add, in regard to the "apartment heads" (supposing that to mean "department" heads in two incidences), I agree with X in that the new city manager seems to be more of a delegator, along for the ride of city failures instigated by certain department heads.<br />
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Although he has done more for citizen involvement and communications than has the city council or mayor, his primary job, imo, Is to supervise the department heads and relate…
This sounds a bit like a two-way conversation, but please let me add, in regard to the "apartment heads" (supposing that to mean "department" heads in two incidences), I agree with X in that the new city manager seems to be more of a delegator, along for the ride of city failures instigated by certain department heads.<br />
<br />
Although he has done more for citizen involvement and communications than has the city council or mayor, his primary job, imo, Is to supervise the department heads and relate budgetary needs. Either he is too young to feel enough authority over the long-established department heads to make much change, or possibly to give Foster a benefit of a doubt, he is slowly progressing and didn't want to come in with blazing changing guns the first year. Either way, maybe 17 months of a three year contract is time enough now to do the city manager's oversight. I hope he can make progress to use his ability to cull out the wrong and especially start spending on projects that will do the most for the greatest amount of residents. Logical comments X and one th…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2020-07-12:4689834:Comment:11023732020-07-12T19:45:44.570ZEpictetushttps://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/Epictetus
<p>Logical comments X and one that I may have understood better with a little more nuance in your earlier comments. </p>
<p>Logical comments X and one that I may have understood better with a little more nuance in your earlier comments. </p> Your blame analogy fails Epic…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2020-07-12:4689834:Comment:11024042020-07-12T19:42:45.273ZXLFDhttps://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/TheLudingtonCitizen
<p>Your blame analogy fails Epictetus primarily because I have been a general fan of Mr. Foster for the majority of his 17 months as city manager, and the problems that have arisen since his assumption of power is that he relies too much on his apartment heads and not enough on the common sense that he possesses. </p>
<p>If his apartment heads were all as good of managers as Mitch is, there likely wouldn't be much problems, but the former city attorney made a good deal of blunders (the new one…</p>
<p>Your blame analogy fails Epictetus primarily because I have been a general fan of Mr. Foster for the majority of his 17 months as city manager, and the problems that have arisen since his assumption of power is that he relies too much on his apartment heads and not enough on the common sense that he possesses. </p>
<p>If his apartment heads were all as good of managers as Mitch is, there likely wouldn't be much problems, but the former city attorney made a good deal of blunders (the new one isn't off to a good start), the community development director has a long history of ethical lapses, a lot of people have noticed the DPW not doing their jobs this year even with the very low workload they have, and... the marina manager who puts up brand new signs and retains others declaring the premises as private, bathrooms as 'boaters only', and who is allowed to choose who to allow into his public facilities is somebody who should be in the private marina business instead.</p>
<p>So, no I do not place all the blame on Mitch Foster, but if he plans on using a system where he effectively depends upon the judgment of his department heads and eschews what should be his core principles in doing so, his permissive leadership style and performance can be criticized legitimately, and reasonably. I would more blame the majority of the city council that will sheepishly change the policy tomorrow to put even more liability on the City than I would its city manager.</p> Those signs have been up for…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2020-07-12:4689834:Comment:11023512020-07-12T19:06:13.382ZEpictetushttps://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/Epictetus
<p>Those signs have been up for years and left up after the City took over operations (I am a current slip holder there). While you may not like the circumstance, trying to place blame on a single individual is similar to how those on the left would like to blame President Trump for COVID-19. From your description over multiple posts, the City and DNR are interpreting the agreement to say one thing while you believe it says something different. The primary way these sorts of circumstances are…</p>
<p>Those signs have been up for years and left up after the City took over operations (I am a current slip holder there). While you may not like the circumstance, trying to place blame on a single individual is similar to how those on the left would like to blame President Trump for COVID-19. From your description over multiple posts, the City and DNR are interpreting the agreement to say one thing while you believe it says something different. The primary way these sorts of circumstances are resolved are via the Courts involving the parties affected, which may or may not be you depending upon the court of laws determination of "standing" (especially if you go forward with a 14th Amendment argument as you suggested previously). </p> You make a good and critical…tag:ludingtoncitizen.ning.com,2020-07-12:4689834:Comment:11021032020-07-12T15:30:59.444ZXLFDhttps://ludingtoncitizen.ning.com/profile/TheLudingtonCitizen
<p>You make a good and critical observation that seems logical at first glance, because words on an agreement can often be interpreted in at least two different ways. The problem arises from the arbitrary classifications created by the public entity running this public marina, along with its multiple signs saying 'private' and having every restroom as 'Boater's only' facilities barred to the public by combination locks. </p>
<p>If the public marina charges a fee it has to be uniform and…</p>
<p>You make a good and critical observation that seems logical at first glance, because words on an agreement can often be interpreted in at least two different ways. The problem arises from the arbitrary classifications created by the public entity running this public marina, along with its multiple signs saying 'private' and having every restroom as 'Boater's only' facilities barred to the public by combination locks. </p>
<p>If the public marina charges a fee it has to be uniform and non-exclusionary. They charge no fee for people owning a slip in either HVM or LMM, it's in their agreement. They charge the condo association $1000 per month, so if 200 people are in that, it costs them effectively $5 each per month. The public is excluded no matter what they offer, that's why City Manager Mitch Foster has endorsed them putting up brand new signs calling the facilities private and allowing the goons at the public marina to escort the public out of the pool and clubhouse just due to their status. </p>
<p>John Shay kicked just me out of the city hall and LPD station for 14 months for making too many FOIA requests for his liking, Mitch has kicked everyone out who is helping pay the difference of the evaporated $80,000 in taxes out of a fully-public facility and claiming they can act like a private business in that regard.</p>