come on city of ludington - seriously? where do I start a petition?

[Angela]

Ok so today was the 4th time in 2 weeks that I have taken my son down to the waterfront playground, or the big boat park as he likes to call it.  Granted summer is not here yet, but every single day that I have gone down there within the last 2 weeks there has been at least 3 or more families there with their children.  My problem is/ the thing I don't understand is why are the bathrooms not open yet for public use?!!!!!!!!!!!! Instead the city has a stinky port-a-john down there that has not been emptied since the first time I went there 2 weeks ago - who knows how long that shit has been sitting in there.  It's bad enough that the public restrooms that they do have down there are in bad shape already - but to subject plp to an unsanitized, dirty restroom facility is beyond reproach!!!  Believe me, I will be calling city hall tomorrow to see what the heck is going on - but really it is just gross - go see for yourself!  And another thing how would one go about starting a petition making it illegal to smoke within 50 ft of the play areas down there?  I understand its an open outside area, but do you really need to smoke at the table while your child is having their afternoon snack & while my child is running to the clide and runs thru your cloud of smoke? WTF!!!!  go over to where your car is parked if u really need to smoke - dont expose my child to your crap.  Anyone know what can be done about this - drop me a line :)

[Willy]

I don't know why the bathrooms are not open yet. Maybe they are wating until there is no possiblity of freezing or maybe not. Call and ask. Regarding the smoke. As long as the smokers take care of their cigarette butts I have no problem with anyone smoking at the playground. Smokers are going thru a withdraw period right now due to the ban on smoking in restaurants, bars and other public places so I think we should leave well enough alone.

[Angela]

RJE - this is an going issue - every year I have gone there smokers are smoking right next to or on the playground where children are playing. This is not something new that is popping up due to the smoking ban - its just bugging me more & more every year and when u blow smoke into the direction where my son is playing then I really begin to have a problem. Its fine if u wanna blow smoke in your one kids face but dont do it to mine

[masonco]

I'm thinking this could be a class action lawsuit since the new smoking ban is now in effect. I think that includes public parks and playgrounds. BUT it needs to be enforced. Take photo, videos of smokers with dates on them for evidence of the city not enforcing that.

[Angela]

I need to check this out further because I dont know if it includes outdoor public parks & playgrounds - they said they werent sure down at the city offices but they were having shay's assistant call me - so we will see if that happens. about the restrooms I was told they are fixing up the ones down there otherwise they would be open now. Which is funny because I was down there 3 times on weekdays w/in the last 2 weeks and didn't see any work being done on those restrooms - but they did say they would call the port a john place & have them come clean it out - so I will check that out tomorrow morning.

[XLFD]

The City of Ludington has one of the most ineptly managed DPWs around, to answer your first query, so wait until the Memorial Day weekend for it to open unless you create a big stink.

As for the second part, the new state law on smoking bans smoking in all public places, it reads:
333.12603.amended Smoking in public place or at meeting of public body prohibited: (1) An individual shall not smoke in a public place or at a meeting of a public body, and a state or local governmental agency or the person who owns, operates, manages, or is in control of a public place shall make a reasonable effort to prohibit individuals from smoking in a public place.

Go get 'em girl!

[Angela]

waiting for 8am to make the phone call - i'll post later what was stated :)

[Willy]

XLFD
What does the new legislation define as "public places". If public places are anywhere that the public gathers whether it is inside or outside then Angela has a legal legitimate complaint.

Angela
A vehicle spews many times the amount of carbon monixide that a cigerette does along with sulphur dioxide and other chemicals. Have you considered how much of those emissions your vehicle contributes to "public places" while traveling to the playground. I've been at the playground when the wind has carried the Badgers exhuast and fogged up the air where the children play. I think coal dust and exhaust would not be of any benifit to small lungs.

[Angela]

I agree with you there - but that smoke is not being blowing in my sons face from 3 feet or less away - more like 10+ feet from car emission & the badger. BTW we walk or ride our bikes down there so my vehicle isnt spewing anything when we go down there thank u very much. Yes I need to find out what is considered a public place is it just indoors or does it include outdoors too? I will find out..............
Ok just heard back from Jackie as the city office - assistant to Shay I believe. She said they are aware of this and that the city attorney is looking into if an outdoor place is considered a public place by law. i would think it is - but I looked at the law & it doesnt define a public place - so who knows.

[XLFD]

Good points RJE, "public place" has been defined in MCL 333.12601 Definitions:
(m) “Public place”, except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), means both of the following:

(i) An enclosed, indoor area owned or operated by a state or local governmental agency and used by the general public or serving as a place of work for public employees or a meeting place for a public body, including an office, educational facility, home for the aged, nursing home, county medical care facility, hospice, hospital long-term care unit, auditorium, arena, meeting room, or public conveyance.

(ii) An enclosed, indoor area which is not owned or operated by a state or local governmental agency, is used by the general public, and is 1 of the following:
(A) An educational facility.
(B) A home for the aged, nursing home, county medical care facility, hospice, or hospital long-term care unit.
(C) An auditorium.
(D) An arena.
(E) A theater.
(F) A museum.
(G) A concert hall.
(H) Any other facility during the period of its use for a performance or exhibit of the arts.

The operative word being enclosed, which means the smoker would be able to do that at the marina playground. This makes her point less legitimate, unless there is some other point in it.

As a devout bicyclist, I agree with your excellent observation about vehicles. The health benefits of bicycling can be greatly reduced when you consider having to be stopped behind cars (particularly in an urban setting where stops are used for 'speed control') shooting their poisonous gases into the air around you.

The negative health benefits of a cigarette smoked out in the open a few feet from you is pretty negligible when compared to that, but Angie's complaint is more due to a lack of courtesy by some.

[masonco]

So a designated children s park is exempt from banning smoking around the little ones? The risk of them stepping on a hot cigarette butt or running into someone holding a cigarette in their hand does not matter? Wow!

I did not know that thanks.

[Angela]

ya I think because its out in the open it is exempt - but the city siad they are looking into an ordinance or something but not sure if they can legally do that. I dont see why not they have all sorts of ordinances - esp down at the beach - so I think they can make one for this park - now need to figure out how to get that started.

[XLFD]

They do have that right-- to make a local ordinance restricting smoking in all, or certain, non-enclosed public areas, but there is a certain amount of people, even non-smokers, who would think this is taking it too far. At this point, I am against the legislation of what should be common courtesy by the smokers to non-smokers outdoors.

Establishing minimum distances and punishable infractions sounds a little bit much to me, but then I'm the type of person who thinks less laws mean more freedom and individual responsibilities for one's actions comes not from laws, but from one who respects their's, and others', freedoms.