Hogging the Hysterics

[Progressive Tiger]

Greetings, Torchers. As a newbie here I would like to say that I have followed your postings for quite some time (actually, since the demise of the "Soup") and now feel compelled to submit my own contribution.

I would like to call upon my fellow liberals to come out of the shadows and be as hysterical about some of our core beliefs as a number of conservatives seem to be lately. Why should they get to have all the fun? I thought we were supposed to be the radicals. Doesn't anyone remember the sixties? 

Anyway, I'd like to be the first to congratulate my socialist/communist/the-guy-wasn't-even-born-here/pals-around-with-terrorists/he's-destroying-the-country/President for tricking President George H.W. Bush into signing UN Agenda 21 TWO DECADES AGO and waiting until now to unleash its devastation.

Brilliant strategy and obviously something we libs need to jump up and down about.

[Lisa O'Brien]

"The famed rail-splitter and vampire-hunter could have thus spearheaded these amendments and still lived by the quote William stated."

I don't know XLFD - it sounds like do as I say not as I do.

[Jane]

Why do you guys get into this lib/rep debate and forget that they are both equally as screwed up as the other, just in ridiculous extremes of opposition.  Sometime some of you get a bit narrow minded.

I will agree the government handouts are creating a nice voter base for those who would rather not work unless they are celebrities making millions so instead sit home on the dole.

I was debating with a black lady on a yahoo news article and she was trying to say that the blacks are so "disenfranchised" and its white peoples fault that her kids have no future and parroting  the general line you here from most of them. I tried to explain to her that if we both had 10 year old children that they both have equal opportunity to be doctors, lawyers, chefs, whatever, hers probably better than mine with government programs that are racially motivated. She could not grasp that concept, nor the fact that it is the parents preaching to the kids about how the white man keeps them down that is more to blame than the white man himself. Those  parents are destroying their own children's soul, aura, karma of their own doing by making them believe that they have no future.

and I am way off topic, Welcome P-Tiger

[Willy]

Jane

Unfortunately the political beliefs, policies and agenda of the "left" are the cause of Americas demise. That's why there exists this "lib/rep" debate. It doesn't take but only a small amount of research to come to that conclusion. Progressives think they are improving society with their ideals but the truth of the matter is "Progressive" ideas are in fact an anchor in a free society. This isn't a Democrat vs. Republican debate because in my opinion there is very little difference between the two parties. this is a debate of ideology that goes to the very heart of where this Constitutional Republic is headed and if it will survive. Your last paragraph is a perfect example of how a liberal / progressive views the World. That woman is a product of the "Progressive" propaganda and clearly shows the divisive nature of the liberal agenda. 

[Progressive Tiger]

Thanks for the welcome, Jane. Don't blame me for the political dust-up. I innocently dropped in to invoke some Progressive humor and, before I realized it, Darth, I mean Mr. Bailey and his cohorts dragged me into the mire. This is getting to be too much work. My two German Shepherds are staring at me while holding Frisbees in their mouths, so I need to stop my slacker, non-contributing-to-society-while-living-off-my-Army-and-social- service-pensions dole (oh, I forgot Social Security too) and go outside to play.

[Willy]

Tiger

It's a good thing your retired with Government pensions because the libs are trying to figure a way to confiscate 401Ks and private pensions. This idea has been floating around for a while but now that Obama is back for a second term it won't be long until this will become a reality. Some of you people on this forum still don't get it. These progressive liberals won't stop until there is no  insentives left to better oneself by working hard, saving and investing.

[Lisa O'Brien]

I looked at John Kerry's plan, and to me it doesn't look like anything portrayed in this video.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10831166/1/automatic-iras-to-fill-re...

personally I think it would be great if employees saved 3% of there salary for retirement. I personally put aside 10% in my 401K and my employer matches 6% of it. It really does add up quickly, and it is nice to have a safety net.

[Jane]

Soc. Sec. and your pensions are not a bad thing in older age when you earned them through years of work and I don't think anyone here thinks they are bad or disagrees with me.

It is those who start out with soc sec disability at age 20 and then live off that and welfare for there entire lives that we are not fond of around this place.

Well, I hope you stick around. It may get heated here once in a while or frequently but it is still a good place to be and you seem to be the type of liberal we welcome, stating your opinions and worldview without being vile and hateful to the rest of us. I like to hear the other side of the story even if I don't agree, but the key here on the torch seems to be it is not what you say, but how you say it that gets you treated well by others at this site. The belligerent liberals get run off rather quickly, the logical calm ones are welcome.

I have a lab/gsd mix, he is awesome.

[Progressive Tiger]

It’s hard to type when one dog’s paw keeps pulling my arm away from the keyboard and another dog thinks panting next to my face will serve some useful purpose. (I've posted a photo of my canine tormentors if anyone cares to see what I am up against.)

Jane, does your problem with 20 year-olds on disability include young soldiers with physical or mental wounds which will likely require many years of rehabilitation? Or are you conjuring the “Cadillac-driving welfare queen” made famous in one of Saint Reagan’s speeches years ago? Undeniably, there are individuals scamming the system, and I’m with you when it comes to stopping the abuses, but I believe there are more people genuinely needing assistance than there are fakers.

Corporate welfare irks me more than the comparatively meager crumbs tossed to programs trying to help messed up kids and their up families. Tax breaks and other incentives for corporations making huge profits on a regular basis? No-bid contracts worth billions of dollars for corporations that provide shoddy materials and workmanship to install showers that electrocute our soldiers in combat zones? What’s wrong with this picture?

Is there waste in the social services field that should be eliminated? Undeniably there is, but the problems generally can be traced to bad management within the service organizations. The existence of doofus bosses, however, doesn't negate the real need for programs dedicated to helping people.

I’m being clawed by two sets of paws now, so I guess I’m done here. Aren't dogs the best thing ever?

[AQUAMAN]

Awww, what a great pal William, looks so much like my Hildy too. Here's an attachment of her, she doesn't really like portrait sittings.

[In Dulci Jubilo]

For every one "welfare queen" or 20-year-old on disability that  I work with, I can provide you with thirty or forty working poor who are barely, barely hanging on for dear life financially.    I know mothers who drive 50-60 miles one way to work a $9.00 an hour nursing home job.   I know fathers that work three part-time jobs - all minimum wage - just to make ends meet.   Forget about health insurance, a 401 k or a yearly vacation.    It's difficult enough for these people just to put a meal on the table, even if they own a table to put a meal on.   It is difficult in this area to find sustainable employment.   Move to the city for a higher paying job, some say!   Go to college and get an education so that you can earn more money, say others!   It's just not that easy. For some, moving 100 miles or more away from family then puts them in a situation where they must find daycare or remove themselves from the only emotional lifeline they have.   One must also examine the resources or lack thereof that these people have.   Some folks just don't have what it takes cognitively to work a higher paying job, or to go to school to obtain an advanced degree.    Not everyone has an IQ of 120.   Some individuals try to break away, but their family or culture pulls them back.   I see it happen over and over again.  This is why I'm saying that the causes of poverty, especially intergenerational poverty, run very very deep and are difficult to pigeonhole.   I consider myself a progressive in many areas, but it does not mean that I believe in enabling individuals or not demanding accountability.    To smugly classify me as a drug-addled "collectivist" or "communist" is just as unfair as me classifying you as a racist, gun-toting, elitist fundamental Bible-thumping Christian.

[Willy]

For every person who really needs assistance there are 20 taking from the Government who shouldn't be on it. When New Year's day comes around and they announce the first born child of the year, take a close look at the names of the parents. Most likely the parents have different last names. So that brings up my pet peeve. People having babies before they are mature enough, before they are financially able to support the child and before there is a secure and stable home for the child to live in. In my opinion young people having babies who are getting assistance from the taxpayers so they can raise their kids is a huge drain on society and the taxpayers pocketbook. My other peeve is college kids receiving grants to obtain an education. A relative of mine was bragging about how she went to school and did it all on her own. What she failed to tell others is that the Government paid her way. When she had some grant money left over did she send it back to the Feds? No, she took a trip to Disneyworld on our dime. She also received food stamps while in school. There are millions of stories like these all over the Country and we, the taxpayers, are footing the bill for this nonsense. I don't mind helping truly disabled people but I am sick and tired of working to pay someone else's bills because of the choices they make in life.

[In Dulci Jubilo]

Willy, I typed a very long reply, but somehow it has been lost.    Truly, even this moderately liberal progressive cannot agree with you more on the single/teen parenting issue.   I can tell you from personal experience that it has PROFOUNDLY affected academic outcomes in schools everywhere in this country.    It is probably the single most significant predictor of how a child will achieve in school.   It is now socially acceptable to be a teen mother, and it is not only the welfare system that is enabling these mothers to do this.    In regard to student grants.   I returned to college later in life to obtain my degree.   I WAS a single mother of three children (one whom is about to receive his PhD from UC-Berkeley, another who graduated summa cum laude from U of M, and another who is currently in college) and I did receive grants and student loans, and I am, seven years post-graduation, still paying on these loans.   I did not receive food stamps, and worked 30 hours per week, while raising three children and attending school full-time.   II am grateful for those grants, and feel that I have paid those forwards in more ways than I care to explain on this forum.    know many people like me who did NOT "play the system" in that regard.