The upcoming health care vote

[Dave]

I pretty much look at it from this perspective, if your the democratic party and you can't even get all of your own party members to sign on to vote with you.. at least not without using gimmicks and tricks like reconciliation (yes, I know both the dem's and republicans have used it before... doesn't make it right when it was used before), then maybe the bill wasn't so great to begin with. I've said it a 100 times before that there are things that do need to be fixed with health care but I don't believe this bill to be the answer.

[AQUAMAN]

Well said Guido, good luck in your endeavors, and keep your chin up, as you already are. Btw, they said the Vets will be getting better services and attention with this bill, I can't verify it, but I do hope that is true. These well deserving citizens deserve alot better than what has come before in health related issues for sure. Thanks.

[Guidothesemipsuedocaptitalistpig]

Thanks Aqua... Actually I can not complain personally about my experience with Social health care. ( VA) in our area I am serviced by The Grand Rapids Outpatient Facility which is not nearly as over worked as some of the VA facility's.. Keep in mind though I am still capable of making the 1.5 hour drive to this facility.
If I were totally disabled, as in unable to drive myself, i would have to either pay to be transported of wait until a family member or volunteer could get me down to the facility.
This is the thing that concerns me about rationed government run health care. I know many in this area who if they had to go all the way to say Muskegon or Grand Rapids to be diagnosed, they may just decide its not worth the bother until the problem becomes critical. I personally have a more chronic set of conditions that allow me to schedule my visits around the rest of my life. I am not at all sure I would wait until I could get an appointment for an acute illness or oncology diagnostics as those are done in Ann Arbor.

[XLFD]

I read the "about us" and some other stuff in the Coffee Party link you posted Mary. Sounds very reasonable to me. Government accountability, freedom, liberty, allowing diversity of opinion etc. seem to be stressed. Good ideas no matter where in the spectrum you are. My new Mountain Dew Party is in the works...

[Mary A.]

He, he. I didn't say I was going to join the Coffee Party Movement, but I think it is an interesting concept. I find the extreme Tea Partyers offensive.

X, you are always so gracious, trying to find something positive to say even if you don't buy in. Thanks.

[XLFD]

As you point out, the Tea Partiers have been demonized by segments of the press (the so-called mainstream media) with very biased reporting, so I imagine there is a fair segment of people out there who would consider the Tea Party's views reasonable, but would not want to be claimed as a member, from how it has been portrayed.

A Coffee Party would allow more liberal segments who think more like JFK and other classic liberals to join what effectively is a movement to control the power of government. So I genuinely do see a good niche for such a group.

Thanks for the compliment, Mary.

[Max]

From what I have been able to gather on their website, the Coffee Party appears to be a far-left or progressive organization. Their repeated use of the word "democracy" is suspicious. Our system of government has never been a democracy.

[Guidothesemipsuedocaptitalistpig]

That was my point max actually but I think the difference is actually lost on many who dont follow the politics as closely as we do.

Consider Communist East Germany Was the Democratic Republic of Germany. label's really do mean thing's.. and what they really mean, in a lot of cases, are not what they are advertised to mean. People who truly educated as to their (intent) they would never really want. Another good example is the peoples Republic of China. It is neither a Republic by definition nor does it belong to its people.
Now lets see.. the U.S.S.R. the Union of Soviet Socialist Republic was it named accurately??

[Dave]

Just watched Pelosi do a press conference and Obama do a speech in regards to health care. Both trying to trump how great it is. Like I said in my initial post, if it was so great, they would of had all the votes they needed and some extra long before now. To put things in perspective, if the senate was just getting around to doing their initial vote now, it wouldn't even pass the senate now that the democrats don't have a majority.

The biggest lie perpetuated by Pelosi in particular today is that basically everyone would be covered. That is an out an out lie. The bill that gets sent to the president as I understand it will be the senate's bill. Using even the president's own numbers, there will still be almost 25 million people without health care... a slight improvement from Obama's number mentioned during his health care speech in front of both houses of congress of 32 million.

[Guidothesemipsuedocaptitalistpig]

Did you notice Pelosi had a pained on smile but some of the other Dems looked as if they were at a funeral... Their own perhaps.

[XLFD]

With Pelosi, that's the "evil clown" make-up. The others were deep in thought, thinking about the best way to present their Kirby vacuums in their future jobs.

[Dave]

Kirby vacuums would be to generous.... maybe Rainbow vacuums?

I don't think that smile ever comes off Pelosi's face... just imagine her attending a funeral.

[XLFD]

Sounds like a defeatist attitude to me, Disarm. Aren't you deadset against this bill? Don't give up hope just yet on this terrible bill failing.