Bay City Nazis: Inside or Outside of the House?

[XLFD]

We have probably all seen a story or two about the confederate flag, and the controversies it sometimes causes when it is displayed in some areas.  This symbol goes back 150 years and has different meanings to people.

Some see it as a symbol of individualism or rebellious spirit, of state rights trumping federal powers, and associate it with liberty.

Others see it as a sign of racism, of supporting the policies of the antebellum south, and associate it with white supremacists. 

Whereas, some groups and states have dissociated themselves with the confederate flag, others have retained it or glorified it further.  It is a symbol after all, with ambiguous meaning, and we do have the right of free speech in America.

In Bay City, Michigan, over on the other side of the state, there is a new controversy taking root, mostly fueled by the media and some other knee-jerk groups about some individual hanging what appears to be a flag in his front window, depicting the well known swastika in a circle of white planted amidst a red backdrop.  That story is on Mlive here.

This flag was a standard of the German Nazi Party, adopted by Adolph Hitler in 1920 and used throughout his political career which was ended by the Allies after World War 2 twenty-five years later.   It is easily recognizable by all who have watched any number of movies as being the symbol of the movie's bad guys.  Everyone has free speech rights, but should there be limitations when it comes to the display of this symbol of what was one of the most barbaric chapters of history?

Before we rush to answer that question, let us consider a few things.  The swastika itself has been stigmatized throughout the Western world since WW2, but it is a symbol that has religious meaning throughout history, and is still widely used in the East, particularly in India.  In Sanskrit, swastika means "to be good".  Many Indian products and modern art still use the positive aspect of the swastika, which has been traditionally a good luck symbol with religious and geometrical significance.

 

 

Even the American 45th Infantry Division, the Thunderbirds, used a swastika in its insignia (above) during World War One, and this was because of its large contingent of eastern Indian members.  Shortly after the rise of Hitler, they switched to show a more appropo thunderbird. 

 

In Mein Kampf, Hitler described the Nazis' new flag: "In red we see the social idea of the movement, in white the nationalistic idea, in the swastika the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work, which as such always has been and always will be anti-Semitic."   Because of the Nazis' flag, the swastika soon became a symbol of hate, anti -Semitism, violence, death, and murder.  The swastika was tilted at a 45 degree angle, and faced clockwise in the flag. 

This is important to distinguish, as some cultures in the past had differentiated between the clockwise swastika and the counter-clockwise sauvastika. In these cultures the swastika symbolized health and life while the sauvastika took on a mystical meaning of bad-luck or misfortune.

Since the Nazis use of the swastika, some differentiate the two meanings of the swastika by varying its direction - trying to make the clockwise, Nazi version of the swastika mean hate and death while the counter-clockwise version hold the ancient meaning of the symbol, life and good-luck.  As you can see in the Bay City window, the German flag replica is facing the public in a counterclockwise manner, and is hence, a sauvastika.  Oddly enough, the private side would be seen as a swastika. 

 

So should we have the individual take this vile symbol down or further explain himself?  Hanging a swastika is a crime in some European countries that can land you in jail for up to eight years.

Or should we honor his right to free speech?  Furthermore, should we stigmatize a symbol like the swastika just because it was adopted by an evil dictator, or should we only stigmatize it when used in context with that person?

[Jane]

I have a wrap skirt that has many swastika's on it, but they are  for the east religions, like the following picture

[XLFD]

The swastika motif shows up on a lot of Hindu and Far Eastern places, including floor tiling, commercial products, fences, architecture, and it shows up in quite a few places in the west.  Check this out from a site whose purpose is to reclaim the swastika as a symbol that stands for something other than Nazism.

 http://reclaimtheswastika.com/photos/

[AQUAMAN]

Interesting subject matter, and very revealing in it's entire format. Yes, this was the ancient symbol of good health and long life. It has since become a symbol stigmatized by the Nazis, and it remains that way pretty much today, at least for much of the world, esp. the USA. I believe in free speech and expressions like flags and symbols that are displayed in a person's home is his choice to make. How the neighbors deal with it is their affair. In the meantime, whether it be this or a confederate flag with Hank Williams Jr. picture on it, it's freedom of choice that should prevail in the USA, not what is politically correct to some good-doers that think their mindset should rule over all of us.

[Willy]

Well said Aquaman.

[Willy]

Does this Nazi dad deserve this type of treatment?

[Lisa O'Brien]

I am kind of unsympathetic to his cause - they took his children away and he shows up to court in a SS uniform, claiming he loves his children - to me if he loves his children he would have shown up to court in attire that was respectful of the judicial system, not dressed in rebellion of the system. Is it his right to dress how ever he wants - sure it is, but be prepared to live with how people judge you also. Legally do I think the state had a right to remove his children because of his love for Adolf Hitler and the 3rd Reich - No. But personally I am relieved his children are growing up in a household that is not teaching hate (hopefully). 

[AQUAMAN]

Lisa, what you say and what you believe are at total polar opposites. I too don't believe that he should dress the way he did, but, that doesn't quantify a person's legal right to see and be a father to his blood children, or does it now? You liberals always want to have your cake, and eat it too. This is a unsympathetic cause if you only believe what your government programs you to believe, which I think you totally support, as long as it's a liberal in office. Is it more important how you dress for an occasion, or what's in your head/brains/and how you speak for your family? Methinks you judge too quickly, as most do. That's an assumption you are entitled to, but frankly, I think that is prejudicial, which means you judge before you know the facts first, based on looks alone. Should I assume you are hateful because you dye your hair purple? Or should I talk to you first to make that determination?  You to me, have a two-edged sword of logic.

[AQUAMAN]

The Swastika symbol has been around long before AH adopted it into Germany, a sign of luck, success, and future health/well being by many peoples. How the Bay City guys interpret it, may be quite different though. Ask them for an answer.

[Lisa O'Brien]

I don't see it that way - I stated I didn't think the government had a right to take them away because of his beliefs. But that doesn't mean I can't be relieved they aren't being raised in a house preaching hate.  have listened to multiple interviews of this man - his speech doesn't inspire confidence.

[AQUAMAN]

You aren't stalking this Nazi now are ya Lisa?, lol. Sounds like it, so post the links please. He sadly acts more like a publicity hound to me, one 15 minute of fame type, big deal, hate is simply one horn of two on a goats head they say. Love is the other horn. We all embrace our favorite, his might be twisted.

[Lisa O'Brien]

Aquaman,

It seems you are just trying to instigate a fight - I'm not biting.You refer to me as a liberal frequently, I am a libertarian. And in life my personal opinions often differ with what I see as right or wrong in government actions. Example: I personally do not believe in abortion,  but because I am a libertarian it is not my right to decide what others believe and I certainly don't my government deciding for them either. To me that subject is completely out of scope for their job description. As far as links for this nazi - google is a great tool for that purpose, but this stalker has to go to work and won't be bothered with that nonsense.

[XLFD]

Aquaman,

Don't forget that Nazi Dad is in Lisa's neighborhood so she can see the local coverage, good or bad, of the continuing saga, much like Nazi Flag House is in our neighborhood. 

I doubt him and the Eva Braun clonette he walks out of the court house with would be better parents than the State of New Joisey, but you and Lisa seem to be pretty much on the same page with a lot of issues, except for the degree of Liberalness or Libertarian-ness of Lisa.  I wouldn't be surprised if Nazi Dad has said some crazy stuff or did some crazy stuff, but so have a lot of people that are allowed to retain their kids.