Do electric cars actually save you money?

[Dave]

I've been thinking about this.... does buying and owning a car like
Chevy's Volt actually save you money over the course of time? Sure, you
save money on gas.. at least somewhat... but does the money you save
from not buying as much gas get sucked up via every time you plug the
car in? And when you are on the road and stop to get 'electric' at a
station, how much do they charge ya to charge? Just curious. Anyone have
input on this? 

[charlemagnetism]

i checked on this a while back when i was cornsidering getting a hybird or fully electric car. most of the articles you check are twisted one way or the other but this was written by a electric car affitionato maker. its dated 2005 but the updates i have seen use this as its framework.

http://www.didik.com/criticalev.htm

heres the critical part;

When the cost of replacing the batteries and the cost to recharge the batteries are considered, the cost to run a small electric car (non-hybrid) is about three times more than a conventional economy gasoline car. Since the cost of electricity tends to more or less follow the cost of fuel, it is unlikely that this ratio will change in the future. Electric cars are fun to have and drive, but you will not save money, nor will you really help the environment.

[Dave]

Its like if you can afford one of those cars, great, but really even a middle class person should probably avoid them as while they will make you feel warm and fuzzy inside, they will send you to the poorhouse eventually.

[Dave]

If I could afford one, i'd love to get one of those Tesla roadsters though... pretty nice looking car and you can actually travel quite a distance compared to most electric cars.

The Tesla Roadster is a battery electric vehicle (BEV) sports car produced by the electric car firm Tesla Motors in California. The Roadster is the only highway-capable electric vehicle in serial production (as opposed to prototype or evaluation fleet production) in North America or Europe. Tesla had produced more than 1,200 Roadsters sold in at least 28 countries as of July 2010. Tesla began producing right-hand-drive Roadsters in early 2010 for the British Isles, Australia, Japan, Hong Kong and Singapore.

The Roadster is the first production automobile to use lithium-ion battery cells and the first production BEV (all-electric) to travel more than 200 miles (320 km) per charge. The world distance record of 501 km (311 mi) for a production electric car on a single charge was set by a Roadster on October 27, 2009 during the Global Green Challenge in outback Australia. In March 2010, a Tesla Roadster became the first electric vehicle to win the Monte Carlo Alternative Energy Rally and the first to win any Federation Internationale de l'Automobile-sanctioned championship when a Roadster driven by former Formula One driver Érik Comas beat 96 competitors for range, efficiency and performance in the three-day, nearly 1,000-kilometer challenge.

According to an independent analysis from the U.S. EPA, the Roadster can travel 244 miles (393 km) on a single charge of its lithium-ion battery pack, and can accelerate from 0 to 60 mph (0 to 97 km/h) in 3.7 seconds. The Roadster's efficiency, as of September 2008[update], was reported as 120 mpgge (2.0 L/100 km). It uses 135 Wh/km (21.7 kWh/100 mi or 490 kJ/km) battery-to-wheel, and has an efficiency of 92% on average.

The Roadster has a net base price of US$101,500 after a $7,500 U.S. federal tax credit is discounted ($109,000 MSRP price), and there are other tax credits and incentives in several states. The Roadster has a base price of £86,950 in the UK and €84,000 in continental Europe. As an electric vehicle, the Roadster also qualifies for several government incentives throughout Europe.

[Sweater Cows!]

Actualy Tesla is incorrect in their promo info. Phoenix Motor Cars has been in business with fully electric with the Lithium ion batts since 2002.

http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/index.php

They are a vehicle that is sold either to the public or to fleets, but not a 'evalutation-fleet'.

from their site:
" About Phoenix Cars LLC
Phoenix Cars LLC, a Delaware company, operates under the trade name of Phoenix Motorcars. Phoenix Motorcars is a wholly owned subsidiary of Al Yousuf LLC and is headquartered in Ontario, California. Phoenix Motorcars has been an industry leader in the development of battery-electric, freeway-speed vehicles since 2002. The mission of Phoenix Motorcars is to manufacture zero-emission vehicles for commercial and government fleets."

I called them on their trucks a couple years ago but they don't have the towing capacity that we were looking for. (two car trailer)

[Sweater Cows!]

I read an article a while back, two or three years maybe...it said that the production of the E-vehicle batteries was more toxic and damaging to the environment than the lifetime emissions of a standard gas or deisel fuel vehicle.

[Mary A.]

I'm not at all surprised. It's interesting that those in power keep trying to shove these cars down our throats, but the issues of battery toxicity and disposal are deliberately downplayed. All we hear is the "good" propaganda. As for safety, you won't find me riding in one of those tin cans. And they are dreaming if they expect that people of America's dwindling middle class with modest incomes will be able to afford these cars. I'd like to see the development of more mass transit so we could just get around more easily without a car.

[AQUAMAN]

Dave, does the purchase of a new Chevy Volt for $40-44K, less $7500 federal tax credit vs. a $15K economy vehicle save you money over time? Or the Tesla for over $100K? The Volt is the new 2011 Motor Trend Car of the Year. Michigan is one of seven targeted regions to be sold in to start, other regions available in about 12-18 months, depending on sales I expect. Volt's 16 KWH Lithium-ion battery is far superior to the nickel batteries used in the hybrids today. Can get about 40 miles of driving to work without a 10 hour 120v recharge at home or work for about $1.50/day. It's a front engine, front wheel drive vehicle. Economy depending on load, and conditions, varies from 31-126 mpg, can also travel up to 100mph, although I think that's exaggeration, more like 70mph I expect. With the built-in gas generator to boost longer mileage driving they claim you can go 300 miles before stopping, another grain of salt imho. A five door hatchback that looks like about 66% of all the vehicles on the road today, not impressive styling imo. If this newer technology can be harnessed and sold in high quantity, arriving at the dealer with msrp of around $20K, it might be a winner. For the time being though, it's way over-priced and has way too many drawbacks for this cowboy trucker.

[Guidothesemipsuedocaptitalistpig]

There are a few other considerations you need to make when deciding whether an electric car is cost effective, and ironically one of those is the environmental impact. The types of batteries needed to power something as large as a automobile requires very high current and usually very environmentally unfriendly batteries.
Those types of batteries like lithium ion and such are extremely toxic and hard to recycle of dispose of without far more impact to the environment than the carbon problem the envirornuts say these things help.

Has anyone here seen the documentary movie by a true patriot in the voice of reason department of environmentalist called "Cool it"??? Very highly recommended watch or read. But places like the Huff post are trying to discredit this guy because he doesn't carry the (destroying the planet) hysteria the way Al gore does.

[AQUAMAN]

Good info. and post Guido, I googled some pretty skimpy trailer? material on Bjorn's "Cool it" movie, released 11/12/10, here or overseas?, but sure seems like he's more on track for solving problems instead of just scaring the pants off of people, like Gore, the hysterical plastic guy. As well as look at funding other crisis problems of this world that are also of importance and forgotten too often. Leave it to Oslo. Btw, back to thread, who's going to spend $50-100K on such vehicles right now, in this economy, and to do what exactly, save $5,000 over the next 25 years it takes to pay these cars off, if you're even here anymore? Kinda dovetails with some recent wind turbines on the lakefront agenda and sales pitch, or does it? Still, in the end, I give Chevy credit, they are trying to compete in the "world market" now. Maybe those rich Arabs can buy a fleet bunch for their servants, doubt any other regular Euro or Asian can afford this. For me, it's Chevy trucks that rule.

[Dave]

Another problem is with the cost of the batteries when you need to replace them... can be several thousand dollars just to replace those when the time comes, and come it will as the batteries will not last forever of course.

[Sweater Cows!]

As a repairer, I can say these bring on a whole new host of processes for repairs as well. Nobody want to get a 650v(I think on some) shock from grabbing the wrong thing under the hood or destroy the vehicle components from not unhooking all the things that need to be unhooked.

Every manufacturer has a different process for how to disable the battery(s).

I remember the first time we worked on one I went out to bring it in the shop and it wouldn't start, at first I thought the battery was dead but then (luckily before I put a jump pack to it)I realized(as the customer didn't tell us) that the vehicle was a hybrid. Luckily the owners manual was in the vehicle and I looked up how to start it. You hold the key forward until a light on the dash came on and it was ready to drive, but you couldn't hear it running as it ran on batt power at low speeds. I thought it was pretty cool to drive.

[Dave]

I've heard of a few companies around that actually sell 'sounds' for hybrid and electric cars, simply for the reason you mention.. that you can't hear them running.