Hogging the Hysterics

[Progressive Tiger]

Greetings, Torchers. As a newbie here I would like to say that I have followed your postings for quite some time (actually, since the demise of the "Soup") and now feel compelled to submit my own contribution.

I would like to call upon my fellow liberals to come out of the shadows and be as hysterical about some of our core beliefs as a number of conservatives seem to be lately. Why should they get to have all the fun? I thought we were supposed to be the radicals. Doesn't anyone remember the sixties? 

Anyway, I'd like to be the first to congratulate my socialist/communist/the-guy-wasn't-even-born-here/pals-around-with-terrorists/he's-destroying-the-country/President for tricking President George H.W. Bush into signing UN Agenda 21 TWO DECADES AGO and waiting until now to unleash its devastation.

Brilliant strategy and obviously something we libs need to jump up and down about.

[Willy]

Sorry about your loss Tiger. One thing that you stated gives you away as to what and who you pay attention to and what and whom you choose to believe. Your statement that the Republican Party was hijacked by the  "Tea Party advocates" is a very telling statement that you know nothing about what conservatives stand for. The Tea Party was started in opposition to Bush's policies who I may remind you was a Republican. Tea Party advocates have a very simple agenda. Less Government, less taxes, a balanced budget, no deficit spending and adherence to the Constitution. The Tea Party is non denominational in it's politics. Both Partys are responsible for our mess and that's how Tea Party advocates feel about our current situation. Tea Party supporters have been lied about by the liberals to get the public to think negatively about them.  Sorry but your a typical liberal who has been saturated with biased news reporting. I agree with William and Aquaman. The true liberals are those that are willing to give up theirs and others freedoms in order to have a Government sponsored nanny state. If you can't or won't see that, then your not paying attention to what your candidates are really up to.

[XLFD]

I may not agree with all your ideas and conclusions, but you seem like a reasonable and respectable person and debater, Tiger.  Welcome to the Ludington Torch.

[Progressive Tiger]

Wow, got some drugs from my doc earlier today, came home and closed my eyes and was down for the count. If not for my dogs walking me up, I’d still be out.

“Once more into the breach, dear friends, once more…”  King Henry V

HOLY EXCRETA! You guys are about as much fun as having to defend the male species at a dinner party with lesbian feminists.  (I have actually done this, by the way. Some of my best friends are feminists and I’ve been married to one for 34 years.)

 Oh, the humanity. I started a conversation calling for my fellow progressives to join me in adding our own unique brand of hysterics to this site. I did not anticipate having to become the public defender of all things Liberal and Progressive, but I made a meager effort to respond to regular forum members vigorously expressing their Conservative beliefs. Debates are often enjoyable to witness and are occasionally enlightening, but I seldom volunteer to be a participant because I’m not very good at debating. It’s too much work, my brain synapses aren’t firing as fast as they used to and, now that I am retired, I strive to avoid anything resembling work as much as possible.

Willy and Mr. Bailey, I appreciate your condolences for the loss of my son. The depth of my anguish has no limit and there remains a hole in my heart that will never be filled again.

XLFD, thank you for your gracious welcome to the Torch.

In the realm of irony and possibly even humor, I received an email last night from a former souper whom I don’t really know, our sole previous communication being a single email exchange years ago, I think, just prior to the evaporation of the “Soup” forum.

The current email starts with: “ARE YOU NUTS?” and then it alternates between castigating me for having anything to do with “that bunch” and then blasting a heated diatribe against the Torch.  Yikes, now I’m taking fire from my own side. Is there something in the water that makes people so angry?

Ok, now I’ll give my final response to politics. I won’t even attempt to cover every question or statement put to me here because A) it’s too much work and B) because no one is going to convert me and I have no interest in converting anyone.

Mea culpa for my not immediately recognizing that I was engaging Tea Party advocates rather than Republicans. I have much experience in dealing with Republicans and none with the Tea Party, except for what I have discovered here. I admired Bill Buckley, used to read the National Review and regularly watched his TV show years ago. After spending 20 years in the military, I devoted another 20 years or so to working with abused, neglected, emotionally disturbed, chemically-dependent children who were wards of the State of Illinois (some might prefer to think of them as inner-city parasitic slackers contributing nothing to society and brazenly taking from the makers.).

At least half of the boards of directors, major donors and Washington politicians I spent time with were Republicans. Laments about the hijackings of the Republican Party initially by evangelicals and later by Tea Party advocates were voiced by these Republicans. Ok, I get it. Those Republicans are to be condemned for essentially betraying the Tea Party principles, not being conservative enough and for trying to conduct “business as usual” after Tea Party candidates were elected instead of initiating changes. (By the way, any Democrat could have told you not to completely trust a Republican.)

Some of what the Tea Party seeks are things that I agree with on principle (less government, fiscal discipline, etc.) but I am less certain about the strict constitutionalist/constructionist view of the Constitution as being sacrosanct  - even the framers allowed for amendments - or the near religious  worship by some of the “original Constitution” despite its classification of slaves as property and there being no provision for women’s voting rights, to cite just two examples of sticky issues. I’m going to really tax my brain now in trying to remember something Jefferson wrote. I believe he mocked men who viewed constitutions with sanctimonious reverence and who thought it to be something like the arc of the covenant, something too sacred to be touched. I’m sure the actual quote is more eloquent, but who has the time and energy to look it up? I’m just an old soldier waiting to fade away and I am not a Constitutional scholar, so I’m not looking to definitively argue these points (hear that, Mr. Bailey?).

I respect everyone’s right to follow the ideological compass of their choosing even though I may disagree with some of them. It’s just my opinion, but I honestly believe that the Tea Party is doomed unless they are able to dislodge most of the old Republican establishment and attract more women and minorities. The same holds true for the Republican Old Guard. This is a daunting task and the effort might simply split the Republican vote and enable a big Democratic win. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what the future holds. (You might want to accelerate your efforts given that the Mayan calendar predicts the world will end on December 21^st. I’m just sayin’.)

And finally, trying to salvage my original mission to inject humor, I offer this:

When the True Conservatives eventually succeed in seizing control of the Republican Party, and you launch the pogrom to round up all the traitorous Liberals such as myself, please remember that the Tiger’s visits to the Torch were civil and free of invective, and at least offer him the option of going to a Tea Party reeducation camp instead of taking a bullet to the back of his head.

On the other hand, if President Obama perfects his mind control technique and manages to beguile yet a third term as commander-in-chief, and when the True Conservatives and dethroned not-conservative-enough remnants of the old Republican Party are herded into our reeducation camps and forced to listen to feminist readings for eight hours a day, I’ll try to pull you guys out of class and secretly set you up with a video recorder where you can watch old tapes of Glen Beck that my fellow libs thought had been destroyed.  Except for AquaMan. I’m going to make special arrangements for him to be strapped to a chair with his eyelids taped open and treat him to an endless loop of Rachel Maddow videos.

 

[Lisa O'Brien]

very funny - welcome to the Torch - I look forward to both your input and humor. I'm not sure what cetegory I fall into, everyone on the Torch thinks I am a liberal, and most my friends think I'm a conservative. Personally I think I fall somewhere in between.

[Progressive Tiger]

Thanks for the welcome, Lisa. I wondered if you were a liberal too as I read some of your past comments. Keep 'em guessing, girl. Just look at how I'm turning Aquaman into an alcoholic while he struggles to understand why he can't fit me into a stereotypical Liberal mould. You're wise to hedge your bets on whether you will be seen as a conservative or as a liberal because when the revolution comes you'll have a 50-50 chance of coming out ahead.

[Guidothesemipsuedocaptitalistpig]

"I’ll tell what does cause me some consternation: it’s the fracturing and uncertain future of the Republican Party. A growing number of Republicans are openly lamenting the fact that the party was hijacked first by evangelicals and more recently by Tea Party advocates, which had the effect of pushing the Party into extremist positions that were hard sells to many women and minorities."

Only Liberal Woman and minorities. And if Conservatives failed anywhere it is to explain that liberalism really does not serve the minorities they claim to serve better than conservatism would.

Openly?? Who is reporting that?? the Huffington Post??

And the few who do seem to talk of such are hardly bastions of Conservatism. It goes back to the Media reporters being left of center. As to who even reads reports of such I haven't seen it in neutral news sources like Al Jazerra. It is pretty sad when a media source for a kooky 3rd world constituency is more about reporting facts than the old guard papers in the U.S. though.

Read Bill O'Rielly's tale of Americas comparing California. #1 in U.S Population and Texas #2 for money spent to results for social experimentation.

http://www.billoreilly.com/video?chartID=556&vid=-4269841490888...

Cali spends Hundreds of billions it does not have for results that make Texas look like the real social safety net answer. Both went backward during this recession but Texas isn't so far underwater as to look like a banana republic.

[Marty Redman]

Good for the Czechs, they just had a revolution a few years ago, they know better than most americans what dependence on the government can lead to.

[In Dulci Jubilo]

Stepping shyly out of the shadows to agree with your witty, enlightened, insightful responses, Prog.   I mainly only interject my opinion on less weighty subjects.   You are far more articulate than I, but I nod my head with an "he took the words right out of my mouth" type of acknowledgment.       I too work extensively with what some perceive as the "takers," and feel I have a unique understanding of the roots of this segment of society, but without the tendency to enable its furtherance.    Welcome from another liberal (with some decidedly moderate traits).

[AQUAMAN]

Thanks or your service and sorry vor your loss TIger but you have been going in circles since day 1 you joined here. [My eph is broken excuse me]. In Dulci I'm ashamed ov you now have you really drank the same Koolaid as the Tiger? TIger you have a nice givt with the tongue and pen. But you remain quite contradictory and convusing to me in all respects. And btw no one here tried or is trying to sway your believs and opinions we simply exchange them and hope some will see the light ov vacts and truths that are there to be digested and thought out. You say many things that don't agree with the Dems at all yet you support them and vote them into ovvice??? Wth kind ov person does that? Except vor a blind minion that votes the way the wive and parents did vor decades previous. I am very ashamed vor you to be a van ov William Buckley Jr. that man had a very virm grasp on our American situation and where we as Conservatives need to be and how this country's vinances and politics work. A very sad and enduring loss as was RWR. That's Ronald Reagan vor you btw. It's not only hard but quite impossible to debate with anyone who sits on the vence and says he votes one way but believes in many conservative's ways ov thinking and governing quite an oxymoron as an understatement. TIger I've witnessed many spin doctors in my day but I now believe you must be the true originator and teacher ov them all and who can compete with all that mularky I know it's a waste ov my time besides methinks I need to get a new keyboard sooner or later. The PHOG and SMOKE are getting rather thick to see in the Torch right now so I'll take a TV break and get a brewski to settle the nerves.

[XLFD]

I think replacing the 'f' with the letter 'v' gives you an Eastern European flair, Aquaman, but good luck with getting that keyboard, they're not too expensive, just hard to locate sometimes. 

IDJ, don't be ashamed for having beliefs that don't necessarily jibe with what's popular here, we welcome your free speech, and respect your ability to exercise your discretion in using it. 

[Progressive Tiger]

Aquaman, perhaps it is your head that is spinning, and not my stated positions. How many beers do you typically need to enable you to parse what I write? :-)

Democrats are not monolithic in their views, and I am an example of that anomaly. There are extremist Democrats who would still view me as a fascist, baby killer, as many did during the Vietnam era. Democrats can be all over the proverbial map with their beliefs. It's what makes our Party interesting and fun to diagnose. 

I admired William F. Buckley because he had a wonderful vocabulary, a sharp wit and he was a reasonable person who could change his mind about some of his beliefs even if doing so would invite harsh condemnation from his political associates. Buckley initially was a supporter of the John Birch Society, but when the Society head, Robert Welch, labeled Dwight D. Eisenhower, Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, CIA Director Allen Dulles and most of the members of the Supreme Court as active communist agents and also claimed that Red Chinese troops were massing at the Mexican border in preparation for invading the U.S. - well, that's when Bill Buckley decided such extremist and insane ideas were not good for the health of the Republican Party.

Buckley was also disturbed that Robert Welch insisted that University of Chicago professors were secretly plotting to deprive Americans of their right to vote and hold property. The Birch Society was also warning of a plot to merge the U.S. with the Soviet Union in order to form a one-world socialist government. Anyone who disagreed with the positions taken by the Birch Society was labeled a communist sympathizer. I believe Buckley described this as "self-reinforced lunacy." 

Is your head spinning yet, Aquaman? Thank you for your condolence regarding my son.

P.S. When you described my communication gift and spin doctoring ability, were you thinking that I might be the Antichrist? Isn't he supposed to be able to mesmerized throngs of people with his slick presentation ability? I'm not the Antichrist, Aquaman, but President Obama might be. That's what I heard anyway.

[Progressive Tiger]

Jubilo, thank you for stepping into the light to welcome me to the Torch. It's nice to know that the shadow world is populated by a few brave Progressives who are willing to venture out when encouraged. However, I don't understand why you are living in the shadows to begin with. Didn't you get the memo about the climate change myth? Come out into the light, man. The ozone hole is not increasing in size, so you needn't worry about getting skin cancer from unfiltered solar radiation. Besides, even if you did have cancer you're covered under Obamacare.

Kudos to you for your social service work. I feel your pain.

But now, to keep this discussion thread vibrant you'll need to bring some hysterics from our side's treasure trove of outrageous notions. Don't worry about logical constructs or the possibility of anyone experiencing a brain seizure in reaction to your comments. Just bring it!

WHEN IN DANGER, FEAR OR DOUBT: RUN IN CIRCLES, SCREAM AND SHOUT! 

Something along those lines.