The upcoming health care vote

[Dave]

I pretty much look at it from this perspective, if your the democratic party and you can't even get all of your own party members to sign on to vote with you.. at least not without using gimmicks and tricks like reconciliation (yes, I know both the dem's and republicans have used it before... doesn't make it right when it was used before), then maybe the bill wasn't so great to begin with. I've said it a 100 times before that there are things that do need to be fixed with health care but I don't believe this bill to be the answer.

[XLFD]

If we were all "realists" a more ridiculous health care bill would have been passed back in the middle of last year. They actually have less methods available to make it pass since last year, so I will keep my fingers crossed.

I have many concerns, but my personal top three would be:
1) Giving more power to an already too powerful government.
2) Reducing the quality/quantity/choices of care, especially for senior citizens and the poor, those already covered by social health insurance.
3) The increased amount of fraud, waste and reduced efficiency created by the behemoth-sized bill.

[XLFD]

Being that they are bringing it to a floor vote, Disarm, I agree with your statement that it has a more significant chance of passing now, there is a lot more desperation on the pro-bill side now, and a vote would signify they have some confidence it might pass.

I was just saying they had less methods due to the 'real-life events' of Sen. Brown's election and the downward trend of popular opinion polls losing them the 60 votes in the Senate and the popular mandate angle.

Your questions are not of the short answer variety, so instead of writing a treatise on each, I assign you to read the bill itself, and enumerate the new powers ('rights') of the government whether it be for the IRS or the new layers of bureaucracy created. Read the high school teachers points below about why socialized medicine is not good, and try to refute the commonsense logic.

Understand that millions of people will still be uninsured, and some will be criminalized because of it, if the bill passes. There are plenty of smart, incremental changes that have been introduced on the right side of the table to correct most perceived problems with what we have now, retain our liberties and reduce fraud. I'm for those-- this bill is socialistic and unrealistic.

[XLFD]

I failed to mention that the teacher's article was written 50 years ago. Still works today, for me.

[XLFD]

It's difficult to refute a large, researched novel with a sentence or two, and hard to deprogram a true believer with a less rosy-looking alternative.
Too many people accept the free gifts, but don't consider the shipping and handling charges.
Candy-coated turds look, smell, and taste good until you try it a little too often.

[masonco]

Sadly I haven't had time to come to these forums. lately. It is crazy at my house.

If this bill passes, there are several states ready to file lawsuit.

Gotta run

[AQUAMAN]

Quite right Masonco, I also forgot you were on this forum, tis been so long. Not only are a number of States ready to file suit, many politically conservative groups, like Mark Levin's, are also gearing up for suits, and they are namely claiming the bill is Unconstitutional in basis. Even our own Max, another constitution scholar, has claimed this some months ago. So, whatever the vote, there is going to be a long fight ahead for years to come to get it implemented. And the fact remains that with it's delayed implemetation, it surely has a strong chance of repeal when the R's take the Presidency back in 2012. Lastly, Pelosi reminds me of Nicholson in Batman, with that Joker laugh on her face all the time. Guess that's what happens after tons of plastic surgeons have their way with your face, and philosophy.

[masonco]

I just learned Pelosi included taking $50 billion from Medicare to put towards abortion. Ummmm

Contact your reps and if you can send a fax to every member of house.

[XLFD]

My parents have paid into the system all of their lives-- now, they will be paid back by government boards analyzing whether they should waste money on them to keep them alive.

[masonco]

The government will be analyzing how to "encourage them" to not use any health care benefits and the cheapest way to use the end of life recommendations. I started working and paying into the system when I was 13. Now I am not even eligible for Medicare yet and Pelosi and followers decided that I will not have Medicare coverage?

It is not Obamacare. Pelosi is the one pushing it and Obama is becoming her puppet in this.

[Guidothesemipsuedocaptitalistpig]

XL the sad thing about all of this is there was never a lock box fund for the money we paid into the already failing Medicare medicaid system. This is why it is the shambles it is . From prior meddling from those we entrusted to run it as a business and keep it solvent.

Now we are to entrust those same yahoos to grow it larger and put the IRS in charge of forcing compliance. How is this change we can believe in working out for us? We can be sure the government will collect the money. Are we so sure they can redistribute it in a good and equitable way? My bet is no. I have yet to see a well run U.S government program. Not that I really want the U.S. Government as a layer between me and my doctors anyhow.

[masonco]

If what I am seeing is correct, they bought Stupak out and it does include the Medicare $50 bill cut.

[XLFD]

That seems to be the case, bought out by a promise of an executive order, for what thats worth. If so, Stupak is Stupid (couldn't resist).