SOUTH WASHINGTON AVE. BRIDGE TO BE REBUILT, IN 2013.

[AQUAMAN]

Yes, one of the more new zestful "Important Issues on the City's Agenda" is to rebuild a 50 year old bridge to nowhere, sorry 4th warders. A local bridge which Mayor Henderson himself said is in no emergency need of repair/replacement/decay of concern for safety to the public. In case anyone doesn't remember, this bridge was originally built to accomplish the goal of getting emergency vehicles to the Paulina Stearns Hospital more quickly than Madison St., and also help get more Dow workers to work timely. So Sorry, both priorities have long since expired. Ok, NOW, the new announcement by City Hall today was that they are accepting engineering bids to complete the work, to be done in 2013, and guess what? You have exactly (3) THREE WEEKS FROM TODAY TO ENTER YOUR BID FOR CONSTRUCTION", BID TIME EXPIRES APRIL 19TH, 2011. Anyone think that's a bit of a stretch for reasonableness in bidding this large important project???, and that the potential bidders are not getting anywhere near the fair time to respond and react with accuracy and DOT standards required for such work??? Call me silly, but I do think this is really unworthy of the project's time capsule for completion, and to get as many legitimate bids that are required of such a project. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, what I am pondering, and assuming, is that there has to be another UNFAIR BIDDER in the background, (see recent DDA threads on such matters), whom has advance information and statistics required to complete the job, and that bidder is ALSO being given UNFAIR OPPORTUNITY to be the lowest and most likely, ONLY BIDDER! But, time will tell I do guess. If anyone disagrees, thanks, but, just tell me WHY this has to be done Immediately, when the doggone thing won't even be built for the next (2) TWO YEARS!

[Sweater Cows!]

I sent an email to someone I know who works for MDOT, helped build the highway 10/31 when it was constructed and the freeway from Pentwater to Lud way back when. She is not a construction person but the actual MDOT  person that handles all the auditing for one of the offices and trains other MDOT employees in lansing. She's been there over 30 years and moved to one of the downstate offices about 15 years ago. This person has no connection to the City of Ludington.

 

I linked the LDN article for her.

 

Here is the reply:

 

"In answer to your question based on the article provided they are not
asking for the construction bids, they are asking for the design and
construction engineering services - not for construction- so that design
can be completed in 2011 and ready for a 2012 letting. After design, the
project would be let through the normal bidding process in 2013.  The
city is following proper procedures."

[XLFD]

I think Sheila's source is pretty much on target with the construction engineering services bids being appropriate timed for the repair/maintenance of the bridge although I would agree with Aquaman that three weeks is rushing it a bit.

However, Aquaman does have a very valid perspective on the Washington Street bridge.  It very well could be considered Ludington's Bridge-to-Nowhere.  Is it necessary to spend $2.5 million dollars to rebuild and improve a bridge that doesn't really need to exist, since there is already a bridge just a block away that accomplishes the same feat?  

Removing the bridge is a cheap option that should at least be strongly considered.  And as over $2 million comes from the State Government's coffers, maybe some letters to Governor Snyder and our Republican congressmen might make such an expense unnecessary. 

[AQUAMAN]

Yeah, I thought about that possibility earlier today, I may have minsinterpreted the article, as usual when scant information by the LDN is published nowadays. But, even engineering bids for the actual construction later, shouldn't it still warrant some more public notice???  Unless it means P&N are already involved, or N&A locally. Just keeping a watchdog approach nowadays, can't be too careful. Seems most of these current bids, of any sort, will see many increases in pricing toward the future of 2013, maybe newer materials that are also improved/reduce cost, so, who can estimate costs/exacting materials/labor that far in advance, engineering may be a structural science, but it still has parameters for costs and materials involved.

[Sweater Cows!]

 What I gathered from the reply I got was that the bid they are asking for right now is just how much an engineer will charge to 'create' the design of the new bridge. Then once the design engineer wins the contract to design the bridge they will then design it. After that point that it is designed  construction companies will get the chance to bid the project and at that point they will be pricing out materials. She did state that the bids  are submitted electronically (I am assuming to mdot). So I think the city would pretty much be out of it at that point.

[masonco]

They already have someone they want to give this job too. One of their friends needs a contract.

[AQUAMAN]

Hmmm, Masonco, that is exactly what I'm afraid of here, and elsewhere that has been pretty much proven. It just pays to ask, if anyone at all cares, and as I have nothing to personally gain nor lose, I really shouldn't. I just give a DAMN! I guess no one else on this forum really does, one way or the other, it's only $2.5Million after all, right?

[AQUAMAN]

It should be noted that the reconstruction, not repair, of this bridge, is to be at least two feet, (2') higher than the existing bridge. That unto itself means quite a bit of new engineering/reconfiguring, imho, to resurrect an entirely new project, not the one there now at all. The new one will ALSO have a two sidewalk system incorporated too, one on the west and east, totaling another 10' width in span. Some ethical and prudent uninformed engineering firm might, just might, want more than three (3) weeks to make these adjustments and engineering changes of importance before submitting them for approval, that's all I am saying, isn't that fair?

[Sweater Cows!]

Aq, I think your not understanding . They are NOT creating the ""design"" of the bridge in 3 WKS.   They are only bidding for the contract so that at a later date they will then design the bridge.The design will not be done until a later date. PLease re-read the email reply I got, I think that explains it prettty well.

 

 

Let me try a different example. You need someone to build a boat, a really big expensive custom boat. So first you need someone to design the boat, lets pretend you want to know how much it is going to cost to have someone design your boat, so you ask for bids in three weeks on the designing process. One company says it will do the design work for 50K then more companies put in bids for a varitey amounts  55K, 60K 47K etc...

 

At this point(the three week point) they have NOT designed the boat, they are only bidding to CREATE the design at a later date, Which they will do over the next year, THEN once the bridge design is created it will go to mdot for approval, AND THEN it will be "LET" which means construction companies will bid the job through the state. The bids are submitted electronically.Therefore the CofL will not have anything to do with the actual construction bids.

 

I can't really say that for engineering firms that design bridges as their daily job that three weeks is to short of a time to decide how much they will charge to design a bridge. Remember, they aren't designing at this point they are only bidding to do the design at a later date. If that was a companies daily work I think they probably can look at what  the city wants and know how they will charge to design that type of bridge.

 

the emial reply I got:

"In answer to your question based on the article provided they are not
asking for the construction bids, they are asking for the design and
construction engineering services - not for construction- so that design
can be completed in 2011 and ready for a 2012 letting. After design, the
project would be let through the normal bidding process in 2013.  The
city is following proper procedures."

 

[AQUAMAN]

I'm not disagreeing with your friend here Sheila, just seems, now that we are being more specific as to the engineering aspect of the project, it also appears to be a short notice for such a futuristic 2013 project. To the best of my knowledge, neither Prine and Newhoff, nor Nordland & Assoc., build bridges in the course of their usual contracting. I'll add something else here, which others at the LDN comment section also said: why the waste of $2.5M. for a bridge to nowhere to begin with? Madison Ave. is one block over, and could well suffice as the only bridge/road needed for this small town nowadays. Both fisherman and marinas under the east portion of the bridge have complained about egress to the lake for decades due to this low bridge. Raising the height 2' won't accomplish enough to justify the expense now either, just recreate the same eyesore, with new cement. How come no one asked around with the people most affected under the bridge about rebuilding it? Doesn't their input mean anything to the City Fathers? Rods and reels are mounted on the tops of boats until usage in the cockpit, same with antennas for radios, along with flybridge type boats. Bottom line is, this expenditure of valuable $Millions has many worthwhile substitute projects of higher importance and value to the COL than this, imho.

[XLFD]

I have to agree with you on this point wholeheartedly Aquaman.  The Washington Bridge currently has a weight limit of 20 tons (40,000 lbs.) which is less than an unloaded semi with dual trailers that frequently pick up loads at Oxychem (formerly Dow Chemical) and other industries in the Fourth Ward and beyond. 

Currently there is no upgrade mentioned in its maxload capacity, meaning that there will likely be no improvement to this limit.  At Aquaman's nearby vantage point I am sure he has seen plenty of trucks lumber across this bridge with the driver unaware or neglecting this limit.  I have.  Its current decrepit status is mostly due to this-- this is a major reason why it would be a good idea to remove it. 

Note: there is no such weight limit on the Madison 'Bridge', and it has a wide shoulder that actually facilitates foot and pedal traffic.  The Washington Bridge does not, and is very dangerous to cross without riding in a vehicle.

[Sweater Cows!]

 I was only trying to make sure that everyone was clear that they are only bidding for the engineering work, not construction. As long as we are on the same page as far as that I am happy.

As far as those companies placing bids for the engineering work (at this point) I would guess that they will be companies who do this for a living day in and day out. If a company doesn't engineer bridges on a daily basis why would they even bid it?

[AQUAMAN]

Good point Sheila, let's see whom gets to bid, also what and how much they bid soon, or will that FOIA request also be denied? Time will tell..................lol.