Wind Power. Is it a good investment?

[Bernard Tower]

At the request of XLFD. I would proffer the attached as proof that a 35% ROI is a typical ROI for wind turbines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlAib32buQo

[XLFD]

Nice, a wind developer looking for people to invest in his product should be tapped for his economic and scientific input.  I'm sooo surprised he didn't downplay the actual cost to everyone, just touted the extra incentives the government will give you. 

Bernard, I'm sure if the government provided all the money to put in and maintain these turbines, that you'd be on here telling us that this is free energy.  Still here's a quick link to a site for Clean Affordable Renewable Energy that says upping the requirements will cost everyone a larger energy bill.  Oh, out of disclosure, these guys are coming out against proposal 3 of Michigan, the 25% by 2025 proposal

http://careformich.com/blog/page/how-does-the-cost-of-existing-conv...

[Bernard Tower]

I would say you failed to research your own state's findings.. I especially enjoyed the "adding 25,000 New jobs" part.. the study you provided was sponsored by a partisan group.. now see what an unbiased report has to say:

http://www.nrdc.org/energy/renewables/michigan.asp

Time for another nap here..

[Lisa O'Brien]

I'm in the minority, I'm all for wind turbines. I like energy conservation, and constantly looking for ways to go off the grid or at least spend the least possible.

[XLFD]

I believe anyone should have the ability to construct windmills and use solar panels too, Lisa, but don't ask me to pay for it and don't change the rules surreptitiously to accomodate those who come here and arrange contracts with gag orders on people who don't give a hoot about their neighbors enjoyment of their property.

[XLFD]

"Unbiased report" here's how that organization you just linked us to describes itself:  "NRDC is the nation's most effective environmental action group, combining the grassroots power of 1.3 million members and online activists with the courtroom clout and expertise of more than 350 lawyers, scientists and other professionals.

The New York Times calls us "One of the nation's most powerful environmental groups."" 

Sounds like an agenda to me, Bernie, so quit spinning faster than a turbine when you tell me that mythical 25,000 jobs figure.  I seem to remember the Havgul offshore people had some lofty jobs figure itself at first, when they decided to put those giant tinkertoys out in our harbors, but when pressed it was just as real as most of their claims. 

[Willy]

Really Bernard? Your first video is a snake oil salesman. The truth is these wind towers are not economically feasible without heavy Government subsidies. The energy they produce is also subsidized. Without our tax dollars wind energy is non profitable and a loosing enterprise. As far as your unbiased NRDC, they have an agenda that is counter productive to the economic well being of this Country. Regarding jobs, I did a reserach study myself and found out that Ludingtons own towers were produced outside of Michigan and built by  contractors from outside of Michigan.

[CLFD]

Willy,

I am trying to figure out if your comments are reliable. You said the wind towers are not economically feasible without heavy Government subsidies, that the energy produced is also subsidized, that wind energy is non-profitable without our tax dollars (what does that mean anyway), and that they are a loosing (SIC) enterprise.

What is the projected return on investment of the Wind Towers in Mason County?

How much electricity are they expected to produce.

How much is that electricity worth based on current electricity rates for the area?

How much government money was sunk into these Wind Towers?

How much private money?

How much electricity will have to be produced before the proverbial break-even point is reached.

When is that break-even point expected to be realized?

What did you mean when you said that wind energy is non profitable and a losing enterprise without our tax dollars? Do you mean that they are only profitable our tax money is invested in them?

How much cement did Elmers provide for the entire project, and how many workers did they employee for the entire project?

How much road work was done throughout the construction area, who did the road work, and who paid for the road work?

How much local tax revenue will the wind towers generate over 20 years, and how much state and federal income tax money will be generated by the income received by all of the land owners over those same 20 years?

What do you project local electricity costs will be 10 years from now?  20 years from now?

[CLFD]

Forgot one more question.

 

Please explain how the energy produced is government subsidized?

[Willy]

CLFD

You ask some very good questions. I had all of that information on my computer back when the turbines were being considered and my hard drive crashed. I will try and relocate that info. I do know that about 80+ million dollars of tax money was given to Consumers to help with their project and they were in a rush to start the project so they would not lose that money due to a time limit. That has been a major complaint with residents of Mason County because the process to approve the project was hurried thru and important details were overlooked including the buried sour gas lines near the towers. When I say electrical  rates are subsidized I mean that Consumers is guaranteed a set price, by the Government, for the electricity the towers produce. Again I will try and locate that information.

[Robert]

25,000 NEW JOBS? Bernard you are full of it like a spring goose. Do these ideas come to you winders in a dream?  

[Bernard Tower]

Just out of curosity..does anyone know how those blades are de-iced during those winter storms? And will they still produce juice in a blizzard? Hmmm.. now these gadgets work beautifully out here in the sunshiney West coast, where you have to go North of San Francisco to get any measurable snow, or up in the mountains where skiing is a regular pastime; but Ludington? Well as Dad used to say, "We get 9 months of winter and 3 months of Damm cold weather here!" WE have hundreds of them all pumping out power from the wind with no ill effects, so other than the icing problem, they should be welcome additions to the Michigan area's grid. But, if you want to keep denying the obvious, so be it.. There's one in every crowd.

[Willy]

Bernard

The icing issue was one of the complaints brought up by residents who live near the towers because it's a known fact that when ice builds up it can be thrown a long distance when the blades spin and folks wanted reasonable set backs between the towers and buildings. The goal of wind promoters is not to have hundreds of these towers but hundreds of thousands.