Could women working be part cause of of our society & economic issues?

[Sweater Cows!]

Now to clarify right off the bat, I have nothing against women working.

BUT, back in the old days before women became a common sight in the workplace did we have so many social ills as we do now? I am to young to remember see, everyone who talks about the good old days seems to remember their childhood, not the reality of what it was like for the parents.

I picture  my town, county or state with all  many women home during the day. Home when the kids go to school and home when the kids get home from school.

Knowing where each kid belongs and one house being where kids congregate until dinner, then back out to play till dark.

Knowing which cars belong to what neighbors and their friends or relatives.

Knowing if little joey or sara doesn't go by around 7:30 towards home that somebody should check up on him or call home or to the neighbors to make sure some creep didn't snatch him or her.

Knowing who does and doesn't belong.

Being unafraid to put someone else's child in their place with no concern the kids parent will get pissed at them for disciplining the child.

Taking turns driving the kids to activities thereby taking the go go go pressure off of each of them.

I could go on but I hope you are getting my point.

In the economic arena We have mom and dad Doe with there three little kids. Dad has a good job with insurance, they bought a house they could afford, Mom drives a nice low mileage but not brand new car, they have a second older model car for Dad to drive to work.

In a modern family mom and dad both work but don't make enough to get by very well.
Neither has insurance but they do make enough to keep up with the Joneses.

The older kids have a Playstation 3, the younger a nintendo wii, they have ipod touches(64GB) and lots of other gadgets to keep the kids quiet when they get home at night because they are so exhausted from work and running that they just can't bear to entertain the kids, they need a couple hours of chill out time for themselves before bed.

They are so burned out that they can't discipline the kids. Plus they feel guilty for being gone all day.

Both parents are miserable. The kids are brats because they feel if not neglected at least ignored.

Now here is my question to ponder, Why can't we double what a guy is paid and bring the women home, not where they *belong* but where they can give the best service to the kids and the community.

Mom can get a part time job for some spending money or her own bank account or even for personal satisfaction.

She can work full time if she wants but isn't made to feel like a lesser person or a lazy worthless drain on society because she chooses to stay home and be there for the family.

Once the kids are in school she can add some hours and make a decent living to pack away for her retirement and as a safety net if her husband is abusive and she needs to leave him. If she does leave him he will pay her alimony so she can still be there for the kids. She won't have to live on welfare and drain our country's resources.

If her husband starts running around with another woman the whole community knows and he gets caught. Divorce is unacceptable so he stays on and supports his family, at least until the kids are in college. The family goes to counseling to deal with why the infedelity happened, they have insurance to pay for it.

If the neighborhood kids are over and one misbehaves she won't end up with a lawsuit but will be praised for discipling the little rats.

So do you guys see what I am getting at?

I think part of the reason people are so screwed up is because everybody is miserable because we are being forced out of our natural family roles and into something man-made of ideals.

I have nothing against a woman who wants to work, and think that we should still go to college and get an education, but why should we feel we are nothing if we don't have a full time job that we spend more waking hours at than we do caring for our kids.

Why should we be thought of as lazy and worthless if we don't want to work, but would rather be a stay at home mom. Shouldn't a stay at home mom(or Dad) be the norm and not the exception.

[Sweater Cows!]

I know, when you see them you wonder how they were able to find a mate to become a mom in the first place. LOL

[AQUAMAN]

There's alot of good moms too that don't get credit, but, that's another thread. Why you sugar-coating this so much Dis? You got me pmp again, in good laughter. Thanks for the fun. Best joke I heard today. Mine was a homemaker in the 50's, and believe me, there was alot of work right there at home. Never a dull moment either. Kids need a caretaker and example to look up to, that's what mom's were for, until of late. Now strangers/babysitters/daycare centers, well, that's a different subject too.

[XLFD]

Sheila,
I'm researching a thread right now that partly deals with this topic, and with you in a minor role. It's kind of a freaky synchronicity. Trends seem to be pushing our families into more unhealthy positions every year. A trend that may be very hard to reverse.

[masonco]

I agree with your thought, but primarily I believe the
lack of discipline at home,
the extreme restrictions at schools regarding "rights",
the loss of families spending time together and eating meals together as a family.
the loss of respect for authority in general
plus...access to TV programs that degrade morality and women in general . (Soap operas on TV and some of the websites on the computer)
loss of old fashioned kids and parents getting together in their neighborhood to spend time together.

To me, these things especially the Dr. Spock extreme has contributed more than anything to the decline in values and work ethics. Today the general society mindset is to hunt government hand outs.

[AQUAMAN]

Very well said Masonco, we've missed your great input on this forum for too long. Due to 60%+ of all families being single-parented, we have this escalating situation of no respect, no discipline, no ethics/values, and it's spreading like wildfire across the nation to this new generation, and the gen X before them. I had hoped our new Pres. fashioned himself somewhat after JFK and his speech about ask not what your country can do for you, but it seems he has become enamoured in the opposite position. We are a republic of democracy, not a socialist state, governed by a ditator or King. The self is the most important attribute/contributor/investor/inventor/participant of the republic, not the destruction of the self to be devalued and subverted for the sake of the masses. I guess you don't have that perspective on life/liberty/happiness when you are a street organizer from Chi-town.

[Angela]

I for one could never be a stay at home mom - dont get me wrong, I love my son, but I am not the type a person to be able to do that. It's sad though that things really are different even from when I was a kid. Parents are worked to the bone and sometimes we are too tired to do too much with our son - maybe if we had better jobs, ones that didn't cut our pay by 5% or more but make us do 2x as much work for less pay, we wouldn't be so damn wore out! And yes we have college educations, but we choose to stay around this area instead of bigger places that would give us the bigger $$$ (but also higher bills, etc....) And looking back, houses-cars-gas-food-etc....... wasn't so expensive to buy either. We bought our house knowing what we could and could not afford - but never took into consideration the economy would slump like it would and cut our income down in the form of paycuts -
We try our hardest to teach our son right from wrong and what it means to be respectful to one another- he just turned 4 so it's getting easier for him to understand these concepts better - but I also think our school systems & court/legal systems are failing our children also. There are so many sides to this issues it's hard to argue them all - but I do agree that things aren't and probably will never be the same as the use to be - which is a shame!

[AQUAMAN]

Life for both parents is a two-edged sword for sure these days. Darned if you do or don't go to work. Here's a quick story that hit paydirt for me a couple of years ago though: man is employed as an LE officer, but has taken pay and hours cuts accordingly. Woman is stay at home mom, she's educated and can get work easily, but wanted to raise her own kids her way. So, what does she do at home besides parenting? She makes money from home selling stuff on ebay, she also sells other items from her home that she crafts, then she enters every contest and clips every coupon available and uses them to offset household expenses. The parents added it up after the first year and guess what, she was earning more from home than by taking an outside job, after taxes and expenses for travel and meals, etc.. Plus, she has the comfort in knowing her kids are getting a good upbringing and love at home, not from strangers. I thought that was novel, yet simple. Believe me, she does work hard at it, has won bicycles, clothes, discounts, tickets, groceries, personal hygiene, you name it.

[XLFD]

Good anecdote, Aq. I know a few 'families' in the area myself where they have one parent work outside the home, while the other stays home to raise the child(ren), and conduct a home daycare business, or other auxilary job. With proper division of duties and sacrifices, these relationships usually work out pretty good.

[Angela]

I also clip coupons & "comp" shop and save our family probably over $100 a month in groceries etc... where as I have friends & they do not do this and cannot understand how I can get away with only spending a little over $300 from groceries & essentials for a family of 3 when they spend over $500+ its crazy that with just a little work how much you can save at the grocery store.......... plus we havent had a car pymt in over 2 yrs and have money saved up in case the cars we do own happen to break down- spending a under $1000 a year (give or take depending on the car) is a whole lot cheaper than a car payment every month thats over $250 - I know some families that have 2 pymts for cars that is more than my mortgage!! Thats freaking crazy!!! But it sux that we also spend around $250 a month in gas for my hubby to go to work - there should be some sort of tax credit if you drive over 30 miles one way to get to your job as long as you are keeping up with the rest of your responsibilites (mortgage,heat,food etc...) as we are.
Plus my dad watches out son while we work so that costs us next to nothing (we buy him stuff that he otherwise wouldnt buy for himself) so atleast a his with a family member while we are away at work.

[XLFD]

Bravo, Angela. There is a lot to say for those people who use coupons and wait for foods to go on sale. My family unit can get by on half of the food budget of another family unit of equal size I know of, due to shrewd shopping and stockpiling. Overcoming adversity, and living within one's means is the traditional American way, and many of the youths coming up are not being given good economic training in schools, or by example, from the government.

[Guidothesemipsuedocaptitalistpig]

I really can not beilieve however, after you figure the cost of a daycare and transportation and such?? It really is any more cost effective to have two members of the houshold (working )as bread winners.
That is unless you really do think the School system does a better job than you of child rearing. Any thoughts? I know my first family did better when one of us stayed home with our daughter the money saved in second cars, daycare etc. Was offset by the lack of a second income more than completly.

[AQUAMAN]

So right Guido, the example I gave, also saved the household on a second car, 4 months or so into the equation. That car payment, insurance, gas, wear and tear repairs. She realized she could use the family car when dad was home, and/or get alternating relatives and friends to transport her from time to time. It all adds up to quite a sum by years end. Most importantly, it brings the true values back to the family unit for unity and sharing/caring.