Holiday displays on public property

[Dave]

Does anyone have an opinion on holiday displays being on public property such as city hall for instance? Myself I don't really care, i'm not overly into the Christmas thing nor am I religious and just can't say that I think its a big deal on what they do. About the only objection I would have is if a decoration or decorations were put up that basically made fun of another religion or took a shot at someone else's holiday. If anything, maybe a city opt not to purchase decoration's themselves and instead do thing's the old fashioned way so to speak and ask for donations.

As far as atheist and holiday displays go, I think they need to get over it and not worry about it. To a rather large contingent of people in this country, Christmas and the other holidays celebrated at this time of year will always be here, they are never going to get rid of it. In some cases the minority is right, in this case, the majority is right. Anyway, i've always wondered if atheist celebrate Christmas... as in do they exchange gifts or cards or is it just another day to them? I'd be interested to know the answer.

While i'm at it, how about the Ten Commandments being displayed in court houses and other public places? I have no problem with this either. In reality, while they are connected with religion because of where they come from, they are really just common sense rules that we should all live by. No killing and no stealing should be pretty obvious to most people.

[AQUAMAN]

I remember this as a very hot issue, just a scant 5 years ago or so. I was travelling out of town, listening to this talk show, just before Xmas, and the debate got very heated indeed. Seems most callers wanted the traditions of Christmas decorations on public property to continue. But one by one, the states starting changing, taking ornaments, manger scenes, the three wisemen, trees lit up, all were coming down around the nation. From city halls, to post offices, to courthouses. It was the fringe non-christian element doing the complaining, and I do believe they were represented by the ACLU in litigations nationwide. So, for me, I kinda am a traditionalist type, preferring that to empty scenes of nothingness during the holidays. But, that's just me. Things, they are a changin, quickly, adversely, and forever in alot of our lives. And as I understand it more recently, more geared to the illegal aliens that permeate this society in greater and greater numbers everyday. JMO

[XLFD]

In my observations, Atheists seem to be a varied lot, and while some will shun all things Christmas, others share in the traditions or at least the non-religeous aspects of the holiday.

Zannie, for example, is a Wiccan, and yet she still enjoys Christmas, and I know agnostics that will even participate in the religeous aspects of the holiday because of family unity or traditions. I am noticing a resurgence of those who make a point to say "Merry Christmas" rather than the generic "Happy Holidays".

[AQUAMAN]

Thanks for the thread Dave. I see you have this same thread with over 100 replies over yonder. Lots of flack against the traditional scenes we grew up with. I guess it is still a hot issue to many.

[AQUAMAN]

Over yonder, Ms. Z, on this thread subject, has been adamantly against any christian symbolism on public property. Now let's see, I researched the Wicca religion, largest of the neo-pagans, with great reverence for the earth, their Goddess and her consort, the horned God. Solitary practitioners without any christian beliefs, rituals, churches, nor routine practices. Most refer to themselves as Witches, and a few as pagons, or neopagans. Hmmm, that shed a light on her true being now. Thanks.

[AQUAMAN]

Numbed, my comment's were quoted research, not to be nice or nasty. However, I do think the Wicca religious cults don't have any resemblance to any type of organized religions, esp. not christianity. Btw, what's your take on the main thread byline of scenes at the holidays? And like I said elsewhere, I just wonder what our forefathers looking down on us now think about their experiment in freedoms for this country nowadays? There is no shame in truth, just reality checks.

[Max]

Aqua, this is by John Adams:

"Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."

- in a letter to John Taylor, 1814

And this:

"Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice."

[Max]

"Freedom of religion was one of many freedoms set forth by our Constitution."

What do you mean by that statement? Specifically the words "set forth".

[AQUAMAN]

Hey Dave, and Max, check out the over yonder forum Dave posted similarly. Ms. Z is really on a rant now that she's back in action. I pulled her chain a little tiny, and fangs sprouted quickly. Hee Hee.

[Dave]

Your such a bad boy when ya want to be... haha

[Max]

I saw that Aqua. We are "doing battle" right now. However, we do need to get a few more liberal/progressives here, in my opinion. I love debating with them.

[XLFD]

Max, Dave, Aqua, etc.,
The aqua vitae of The Ludington Torch will be to successfully address local issues and encourage spirited debate on all debatable issues. To this end, I encourage all of you to invite anyone from other sites or your own acquaintances that do harbor opposite viewpoints and can argue for them with equal zeal to you.

Informed consensuses are nice, but gladiatorial combat can be downright fun.

[AQUAMAN]

I always welcome, with few reservations, any liberals, extremists or not, to come to debate. Talk like informed adults with the evidence/research to back it up too. Not call names, not change the subject, not make flimsy jibber-jabber, and not hide behind evasive tactics/lack of research, nor false propagandized reports/agencies, to gain some imaginary advantage. True middle-of-the-road Independents, speaking as one, can conversely agree/debate with either side, depending on the subject matter, and the person that is presenting the thread. I see when it's appropriate and a convenience, the Dems. have cited Reagan's approaches to some parts of Gov't. as good, conversely, the Reps. have also cited FDR as right on alot of approaches to Gov't.. Having said that, I do prefer to "do battle", on a level playing field of intellect and diversity. But, time and again, we do see that some prefer the earlier tactics illustrated, and for them, I think they are just, well, dillusional in debates, not factorial. Yeah to the Gladiators of the Torch, they are true Vikings of this age. Sorry, that was an unintentional Favre moment!