I'm glad I have no interest in flying

[Dave]

I don't have to worry about getting the pictures taken or the police
style pat downs. I understand the need for security and all but it's
gotten to the point where the pat downs are border line illegal..
unconstitutional even. The 4th ammendment protects us from the
following:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures

Having ones private areas touched by persons who are not even officers of the
law would seem to me to be an unreasonable search.

To anyone that fly's often, my sympathies. 

[Mary A.]

I agree. Next they'll be searching people's body cavities.

[Max]

"Next they'll be searching people's body cavities."

That is the next step.

[Sweater Cows!]

If I were to go on a plane I would rather that I didn't have to worry about it being hijacked or blown up while my family is on-board. I would think the x-ray deal should be mandatory for all fliers by now. I prefer to make it home alive and if it hurts someones feelings for them to fly than to damn bad, take a boat, train or car. All these Muslims with their 'religious' reasons for not wanting the scanner done can stay the hell on the ground. If they don't like the procedures to fly stay home, nobody has the 'right' to fly, it is their choice and if they don't like the rules then don't fly.

[Dave]

Your right, flying is not a right.

Part of the issue is simply just how detailed some of the searches are. Plus there are is another device out and available that will give just as much info and is less invasive then the body scanners that so many people have issues with. I've heard tell that the person who recommended the body scanners for use by the TSA a short time later went to work for the company that makes said body scanners. This other system is more of a infra red system that will identify the hot and cold spots on a person. Of late i've heard some horror stories in regards to these new procedures... A Houghton Lake man that had had cancer and now had a bag attached to his body to collect his urine was handled so roughly during a pat down that the cap came off the bag and urine soaked his clothing. Another one I heard of is a woman that had a prosthetic breast due to having breast cancer she was made to remove so that it could be proven it was what it was.

I do agree that anyone that does decide to fly should have to go through all the same security procedures regardless of their religion. Some Muslim women have been granted a waiver where they can only be searched from the neck up.... that is simply moronic. Not to racial profile here but lets just say that the majority of terrorism that is perpetrated against American targets is done so by radical Muslim's.... unfortunately, due to that fact I just don't think in good conscience that anyone of any religion can be given a 'free pass' basically due simply to their religious believes.

I choose to stay as close to the ground as I can... basically just because i'm afraid to fly... I know with my luck, whatever plane I stepped on to would be the next one to crash. I know the odds are more likely that a person dies in a car accident then a plane accident but I look at it from the viewpoint that when a plane crashes, it takes a lot more lives then a typical car accident.

[Max]

Why is flying not a right? Is travel then, also not a right?

This is a right, protected by the Constitution:

Amendment 4

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, "

If we don't have the natural right to touch others without their consent, how then can we delegate that power to the government?

We could very well be the last generation of free Americans.

"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[Dave]

I just read a little something about Obama and how he thinks that the pat downs are needed. He was asked about them in a interview with Barbara Walters that will air tonight.

I think to set a good example, he should let himself be checked before stepping on Air Force One or Marine One... get his 'junk' checked and so forth.

[AQUAMAN]

Ok then, since flying is not our "right", then we might as well install scanners and pat-down people at all the movie theatres from now on too, any sports event indoors and outdoors, all shopping malls, all concerts, all conventions, all courthouses, all government buildings, all hospitals.................getting the idea? Where do we draw the line if this is ok at the airports? As someone else pointed out in a talk show, why aren't they stiffening up security where the luggage and freight being loaded on the plane are? This seems more like an easier point to smuggle on bombs. Bottom line is, homeland security has already abused and over-stepped our rights enough, where do they draw the line, or is it now invisible?

[Sweater Cows!]

"all concerts" They DO search by wand and check bags/purses at many concerts already. Not at Steely Dan any of the three times we went and not the stuff older folks go to(you know-the ones your age! (hehehe just teasing)

But I was at something, a sort of heavy metal/ rap type thing quite a few years ago (it was called Family Values Tour) can't remember who played now it must have been over ten years ago but they did search for weapons, as have a few others,no wallet chains and other stuff.

[Max]

"They DO search by wand and check bags/purses at many concerts already."

I don't have a problem with that. The issue to me is when the government does it.

[Sweater Cows!]

#1 If flying was a right we would have been born with wings. The only 'right' we have is to walk, as that is us humans mode of transport that we were born with as a natural 'right'.

#2 If flying is a right then I demand my right to it by a paypal link that you shall transfer me the money I need to get to a vacation destination via airplane. Although I could get there with my own two feet, or car or bus or boat without the public's money but you claim it is a right then I expect the people of the USa to pay for it for me. If it is a right, I am 'entitled to it' am I not? But since I alone cannot afford it I demand you pay for it, as it is a right and not a privilege correct?

Shall we have free plane tickets for the poor, since they cannot afford one? It is a right(something they were inherently born with) for them to fly, so us taxpayers must pay for it then or we would be denying them their 'right' to fly wouldn't we?

Rights are what you can do with your own self, by your own means. Flying, like driving a car, bungee jumping, zip lining, skydiving, these are all 'rights' then---I mean I do have the RIGHT to the 'Pursuit of Happiness" (I guess it doesn't say I have to be able to fund my happiness myself and if as you say it is a right)so if you won't pay for these things for me then you are denying me my right to my happiness, of which you have no right to do. Oh, I also like horseback riding, so I expect you to buy me 40 acres, build a barn, and an indoor arena-heated and air conditioned- (I don't like the hot/cold) and lifetime payments for my right to my happiness with horses as well.

[Max]

"#1 If flying was a right we would have been born with wings. The only 'right' we have is to walk, as that is us humans mode of transport that we were born with as a natural 'right'."

If that were true we would be issued guns, since we have a right to "keep and bear arms". Ridiculous.

"#2 If flying is a right then I demand my right to it by a paypal link that you shall transfer me the money I need to get to a vacation destination via airplane. Although I could get there with my own two feet, or car or bus or boat without the public's money but you claim it is a right then I expect the people of the USa to pay for it for me. If it is a right, I am 'entitled to it' am I not? But since I alone cannot afford it I demand you pay for it, as it is a right and not a privilege correct?

Shall we have free plane tickets for the poor, since they cannot afford one? It is a right(something they were inherently born with) for them to fly, so us taxpayers must pay for it then or we would be denying them their 'right' to fly wouldn't we?"

So the socialists think. Just because you have the right to do something does not mean that someone else has to provide the means.

[Sweater Cows!]

""#1 If flying was a right we would have been born with wings. The only 'right' we have is to walk, as that is us humans mode of transport that we were born with as a natural 'right'."

If that were true we would be issued guns, since we have a right to "keep and bear arms". Ridiculous.""

Yes we should/.lol They are so expensive-like plane tickets, lets issue them to all. Nothing like supporting zero population growth. hehehe

"So the socialists think. Just because you have the right to do something does not mean that someone else has to provide the means. " Now what do you mean by socialist? I tend to get all the i-ists, and -isms, mixed up?

"Shall we have free plane tickets for the poor, " yes please, my kid wants to go to Disney and it would be great if someone would foot the bill, I am joking, I don't really expect any1 to but it would be nice, maybe I should play the lotto.

But the problem is that I am terrified of flyingfalling to my death from 35K feet, it isn't like you can just pull over on a cloud and change the alternator if it goes out. Or stop the bomber/hijacker(in your guys opinion).

See to me IF I were to fly I would want everyone strip searched and hand searched and x-rayed. Three times over just to be safe. Odds are I will be driving.

"So the socialists think. Just because you have the right to do something does not mean that someone else has to provide the means." So then, aren't rights something we have without making a choice? Whether we are rich or poor?

Don't get me wrong--I do 'get' what you all are saying--I just don't agree.