The $34,000 Stearn's Park Men's Room Fix-Up Update

[XLFD]

The Mystery of the Expensive Men's Room Repairs

At the Nov. 26, 2012 Ludington City Council a concerned citizen came forth with an incredulous tale at the public hearing for Ludington's Budget: 

"Now I will focus on some of the negative aspects of the budget, stuff that makes me wonder about the competency of the people that make these budgets each year for the City. If they are competent, then I worry more about where all the extra wasted money goes. For example: the City will renovate the men's room at the North concession stand at Stearn's Park for the price of $34,000.

That's right, it's not a misprint, it's referred to twice in the budget: $34,000 for fixing one men's room at Stearn's Park.  The notes say it is in terrible condition. Even if every single thing inside that restroom is fixed, painted, and/or replaced, I can't see the cost being one-tenth of $34,000. Are they going to use solid gold commodes and urinals? 25 K Gold signs, maybe?

There are several houses you can buy within the city limits for under $34,000, but that's what the City has budgeted for fixing up one men's restroom. Someone can make a year's salary by doing a week's worth of work."

                                           " John "

                                                 " Shay "

This was detailed more here:   beyond-expensive-water-closets-and-water-tanks

 

This was reflected in the budget in two places:

As stated, I cannot envision how a frugal government body could spend $34,000 to fix up a bathroom.  Replacing fixtures should cost about a hundred dollars per fixture plus labor.  New tile all around, new paint, new doors, dividers, etc. has me even balking at the figure of $3400, no less $34,000.  So I did what I normally do in such instances:  I went for answers through a FOIA.

 

Mystery Solved!

 

I sent the following FOIA request to City Manager John Shay last week after the meeting, with the usual parameters:  "I am requesting to personally inspect the following public records, or receive scanned or electronically transmitted records (whichever is most economical) for :

All documents (including bids, estimates, letters/E-mails to contractors/vendors, etc.) that assisted the Budget Committee to arrive at a $34,000 budget figure to 'renovate the men's room' in the North concession stand at Stearn's Park."

 

And received the following earlier today:

 Response%20to%20Rotta%27s%20FOIA%20Request%2011-29-12.pdf

Apparently, $34,000 is the usual number that John Shay and his crew of budgeteers assigns to fixing up a men's room at a concession stand at Stearn's Park.  Does something smell a little like a men's room in need of renovation?  Is anyone seeing a pattern here yet?

[Brian Carlson]

It is nice to have a clean and working rest room, but Isn't this restroom closed for more than half the year? It probably is due for an update, but $34,000 does seem excessive.

[XLFD]

I don't know the exact opening and closing times, but I believe it first opens in May and closes in October (maybe even September) each year.  If not, it would likely suffer from hooliganism and/or frozen pipes.  If you don't like heights and have handyman skills, you can make a good years salary profit just for this project, instead of painting a water tank.

[Willy]

Fixtures do not need replacing unless they are broken. Floor tiling can be repaired if broken. Painting is not that expensive. The local boy scouts could do the painting job on a Saturday afternoon as a project. Everything can be cleaned with a good scrubbing. The scrubbing job would be a good project for the Mayor and Council if they really wanted to help the citizens of Ludington.

[Lisa O'Brien]

Since I have not used this restroom - is it a single stall or are there multiple toilets, urinals and sinks that are going to replaced. Also what is the general square footage of this restroom that is going to be re-tiled. $34,000, may seem like a large $ amount, but I think the $3400 you mentioned in way to low.

[AQUAMAN]

I was in both the north and south concession stand men's rooms this past summer, while posing as an ice cream cone customer no less, only $2.50 a pop too, expensive. This was probably the first time I had visited them in many decades, and they both appeared rather unchanged, and dirty, not kept up by the concessions people nor the COL DPW. Either way, they are both rather small, not more that 150-200 square feet. The most I can imagine to repaint, re-tile, replace commodes and urinals would be $5,000-$7500, and that's stretching it. Wonder what COL favorite vendor will get this contract, and why not do both men's rooms and ladies too for about $25K? Tye's isn't going into plumbing work nowadays, or is he? LOL P.S. Last I knew the concenssions were open on Saturday of Memorial weekend, and closed on Labor Day, so it's about 90 days and small change, not even close to 6 months.

[Lisa O'Brien]

I think you and XLFD are looking at this at a home based project, this restroom is meant for high traffic. Everything in it will have to be commercial/industrial grade - fixtures and tile. 

[XLFD]

Help us to get to $34,000 then, Lisa.  Unfortunately, as Brian noted, we won't be able to take a good look at the latrine until about May of 2013.  As you can tell from the FOIA response, I could get no help from the budget planners. 

Whereas, I can see a very rich person putting $34,000 into their own private restroom at their mansion, I cannot see industrial grade fixtures and tile getting close in this case.

[Lisa O'Brien]

How many of the following:

Toilets   Urinals   Sinks   hand dryers (electric / paper towel / or the disgusting towel that goes in circles). Are these all in an open area - or will there be stalls with doors - if so how many ?  

The tile is it just for the floor? or will it be on the walls if yes on the walls completely or half way and the remaining top half painted.

Is this a high ceiling room if yes about how tall - what kind of lightening do they use. Since this is at the beach, I'm assuming there are drains in the floor how many. 

Since they are remodeling it, I certainly hope they are going with fixtures having sensors so that there is a minimal amount of actual touching anything that a user needs. Does anyone know if they are modernizing it?

[Lisa O'Brien]

On a side note - My friend just redid a 3/4 bath - the tile alone was over $10,000. I know when I remodeled my full bath around 15 yrs ago it ran me $10,000 - but that was a completely new - walls ripped down to the studs, new wiring, copper pipes and all new fixtures (I even sprung for a Jacuzzi tub {side note - completely over-rated and the jets are miserable to clean})

[Willy]

This should help in figuring out the prices of commercial fixtures. http://www.nextag.com/commercial-toilet/shop-html#! From the price the City is willing to pay, my guess is they plan to have the bathroom gutted and have an all new interior installed plus gold trim around the toilet bowls and urinals. Even gold won't help guys with their aim. I imagine the sidewalk leading to the golden toilets will be sprinkled with gold dust so tourists will realize how rich Ludington is and just how much money  Ludingtons citizens have to waste. By the way, who decides what is in need of repair or replacing?

 

[AQUAMAN]

I don't know who decides that Willy, but for sure, it's way way overdue. The old fixtures are not commercial looking either. If there is any Gold involved, we know who has that locked up in town, Tye's. It looked pretty much the same to me as when I was 15 years old, now that's a million years ago...lol. Actually, I'd like to think this out while trying out that Jacuzzi of Lisa's, anyone want to go with...lol? Are bathing suits optional?

[XLFD]

I think we need to take a road trip out east to find out the answer to this question, and to check out the jacuzzi before the end of the world comes.  I am sure that since they have budgeted $34,000 they will send out sealed bids to a few contractors to see whether any will do it cheaper.  Or sidestep that process and give the contract to one of the usual cronies.  Tye's Inc. just doesn't do signs anymore.