The Arizona Illegal Immigration Bill

[Dave]

As many here have probably heard by now, Arizona had a new illegal immigration bill signed into law last week by their governor. As expected, there is plenty of protest going on around the state of Arizona, specially at the capital. Reading what I have on the bill, I don't know if it was the right bill but I think that in a way, it was definitely needed. I have a feeling that the law will be deemed unconstitutional, mostly on the basis that state governments can not make laws in regards to the borders (or something to that effect), only the federal government can do that. The federal government has long dragged its feet on the subject and may now finally be forced to do something about it.

I would kind of liked to see the law go into effect just so everyone could see exactly how the law is enforced. It's entirely possible that all the protest could be over reaction.... police officers for all anyone knows could be very responsible and fair when it comes to enforcement. To be fair, the people protesting and talking in the press are giving the impression that the police would simply be stopping anyone and everyone that even looked a little bit like they could be illegal. I would like to think that police officers would be acutely sensitive to this point and would go out of their way to avoid getting into situations where their reasons for stopping someone could be questioned. As far as i've been able to determine from the law, officers simply couldn't stop someone to ask for their ID's, they have to have probably cause to stop someone.... basically like when getting pulled over, a officer that pulls you over has reason to believe that something illegal has taken place.

Myself, i'm all for anyone and everyone immigrating to the USA.... I only ask that they go through the proper channels. I do think that the government needs to make it a bit easier, less time consuming and more affordable for people to do so... and also to increase the number of people that would be allowed into the country on a yearly basis. The one main thing that I think should be and might already be required is to know basic english. I really think that if more of the illegals bothered to learn the language, they would probably adapt better. Nothing is more irritating when working retail when you have someone that doesn't speak a lick of english trying to tell you what they want and you can't understand anything they are saying. Anyhow, I have a hard time having sympathy for people that decide to come here illegally. If you decide to make the decision to come then you and you alone are responsible for anything that happens to you, like a person drinking at a bar who decides to drive home and kills someone.... the only one responsible for what happened is the person that did it. I've made plenty of mistakes in my life but did my best to make sure that any decision that I did make was legal.

Here is one of many stories you can find on the web in regards to the story... this one is from Bloomberg Businessweek:

Mexicans Are ‘Angered’ by Arizona Law, Calderon Says

By Crayton Harrison and Thomas Black

April 26 (Bloomberg) -- Mexicans are “angered and saddened” by an Arizona law making it a state crime to be in the U.S. illegally, President Felipe Calderon said.

“The legislation doesn’t adequately guarantee respect for people’s fundamental rights, not only of Mexicans but of Mexican-Americans who will also be the object of persecution and injustice,” Calderon said today in a speech in Mexico City.

About one-quarter of Arizona’s population is of Hispanic descent, according to Census Bureau figures. Calderon’s comments today follow a statement from his office last week that said the Arizona law was an “obstacle” to finding solutions to common problems along the U.S.-Mexico border.

Arizona Governor Jan Brewer signed into law last week a bill that would require local police to check the immigration status of anyone suspected of not having proper documentation. The southwestern state is a frequent transit route for drugs and people smuggled across the border from Mexico.

President Barack Obama on April 23 called the law “misguided” and said it highlighted the need to overhaul federal immigration laws. Obama said there are 11 million people living illegally in the U.S. According to the Department of Homeland Security, there are 460,000 residents living illegally in Arizona, the seventh-highest amount among U.S. states.

Calderon called the legislation “opportunistic” and based on election-year politics. He expressed concern for the human rights of Mexicans, both legal and illegal, because of the new law.

“The commercial, tourism and cultural ties between Mexico and Arizona are severely affected by this type of legislation,” Calderon said.

[XLFD]

I think there is a good parallel to be made between this and Coco's recent thread about deer and mushroom poachers coming onto her property. Once again showing that all politics is local.

If I invite you onto my property, or you contact me by phone, or even at my front door, respectful of my property rights, you will likely gain my favor, and perhaps gain access to my property.

If you sneak onto my property, take my bounty, have liberties with my possessions, don't be surprised if I seek to have you thrown off it and seek punishment or restitution.

[AQUAMAN]

Another slap in the face by Mexico's El. Presidente, for all the good we do for Mexico, on every economic level you can imagine. I say we pull them from our Allies list and let them float it alone for the next five years or so, and deport all the illegals back to El. Presidente, and he can pay for their upkeep out of his wallet for a change. Or we can just do what is politically correct, and keep defeat at our own doorstep as usual.

[Max]

It is really hypocritical for the Mexican president to say that the Arizona bill violates human rights, when his own government has been doing that to their own people for a very long time. They deny their citizens the right to protect themselves by denying them the right to keep and bear arms. Perhaps the Mexican president should keep his "nose" out of our business. Remember the Alamo.

The Arizona law does nothing more than mirror federal law, a law that the federal government is not enforcing. I, along with the vast majority of Arizonans, support the law and Governor Brewer. I would like to see New Mexico do the same thing, but it won't happen as long as the crooked fat man is in office. His term is coming to an end this year though, thankfully. Governor Brewer also signed into law Constitutional Carry, making it the third state in the nation to do so.

[AQUAMAN]

Last nite I tuned into FOX and MSNBC, not unusual to see more of the same on both networks regarding this bill. But, as Max so accurately pointed out, the intent and content of it directly mirrors the Fed. bill on immigration. It's time to let the laws and lawmen do their jobs, quit handcuffing them from sworn and pledged duties. I hope this is an example for other states to adopt asap like NM, CA, TX, FL, & LA. Now Mr. O has also spoken and seems to want to put this on the front burner for the two houses asap, to nullify and sanctify the old sameo ways of looking the other way. Why would both houses have set up these immigration laws years ago if they never intended to enforce them? What purpose does it serve? Who stands to gain? Why have any southern borders, guards, laws, visas, green cards, agencies, for immigration if we don't use them properly? Obvious answers are there for the thinking person, it's not hard to figure out. It's a warped agenda that only serves to fuel a bad situation gone wrong for too long already, imho.

[Dave]

Hopefully they do cover the VISA situation that you mention in the bill. I also hope that they have taken into consideration that some people don't always have their ID's on them and the bill gives the person a chance to prove their citizenship... would seem like they would of included this in the bill.

It's unfortunate that your Indian friends had the situations that they did... I think one thing that will always be around is racism. Every country is always going to have an issue with it... some people you just can't change.... i'd like to think though that the number of people that are racist is a segment of society that is continually getting smaller and smaller.

While I don't approve of in any way what was wrote on the car you mentioned, I suppose I can understand why someone felt they needed to say it. In their eyes, they only seen a bunch of muslims (as a whole) flying planes into the WTC and Pentagon. The reality was that it was a small group of radicals that did it. There is definitely a difference between most muslims and radical muslims as far as i'm concerned.

[AQUAMAN]

Bottom line tonite is, the immigration bill in Az. will probably be appealed in some Federal court of court jesters, likely to overturn the people's wants and needs. This is just wrong and won't be the end of this rally for America and Arizona, Utah, NM, Ca., FL, LA, TX, and other states that say State Soveirnty must prevail and control local issues that the Fed wants to ignore and make political. States rights must prevail, and not be ignored any longer.

[Willy]

Coco
I see. Only whites are prejudice. And if a minority is prejudice it's retaliation. I've seen and heard minorities bad mouthing and physically beating whites. A white man or a black man does not want to walk into a Latino neighborhood in L.A. because he will end up a pin cushion for stilettos. It's a two way street. There is prejudice all over the world between races, religions, ethnic groups, governments ect. If you think that only minorities receive predudicial treatment then you haven't been around the block to often.

[Willy]

Coco
I said white man or black man and I never mentioned gangs. This is not a gang issue. Your perspective is from the female side of the situation. Men know what I am talking about. And we are not talking about bullying in school. We are talking about racial prejiduce manifesting itself in violence or harassement. I have witnessed much more againts whites than minorities. I think your point of view and mine are very different. Please Coco, you can't guarantee anything beyond your control.

[Dave]

I was listening to the radio yesterday and the person I was listening too made what I thought was a pretty good point:

Whats more outrageous.... being asked to show your insurance card for your required health insurance or being asked to show a document/ID that shows you are a resident of the USA?

People like the president of Mexico are trying to make the people that come to the USA illegally the victims when its simply not the case. The Mexican president did play right into Arizona's hand though I suppose by giving a travel warning to anyone going to Arizona... granted I imagine that that was aimed at actual tourist and not the people crossing illegally.

[AQUAMAN]

Quite right Dave, El Presidente issued the travel warning to stir up the pot, and get tourist dollars spent somewhere else, preferably, not the USA. This is a destructive and underhanded way to conduct his policies and object to one state's laws. Last nite a couple of Az. Sheriffs were interviewed and had this to say: their crime rates, esp. in Phoenix, but also including the remainder of the state, has had increased criminal activities go up about 400% in about a decade. Manpower is short, so is jail and prison space. It's out of control, and they have no relief in sight to deal with it, it just gets worse. We are talking about haneous crimes/felonies, and the majority are latino related, illegal aliens w/o citizenship. Nowthen, another person was interviewed from Utah, stating they are also going to put a similar bill into act. The same reasons, they too are bombarded with new crime and increases they cannot deal with at present. Seems this has been going on for some time, and from what Max said a couple of weeks ago about NM, it is spreading all over the SW USA. When US citizens have to live in fear of illegal alien gang-related crimes in their homes, on their land, in their vehicles, wherever they go, at schools, it's time to act, and that is exactly what these bills are doing, trying to protect innocent US citizens from more needless deaths and crime.

[AQUAMAN]

I see where the Libs. on this issue are coming back with the same set of excuses for this new/old re-enacted law of immigration, mirrored on old Fed. Law for many decades, to die, cause, it aint fair and profiles, too racial! Is this the best excuse the Libs. and our own Presidente can come up with for legalizing the murders of many US Citizens now? I think it's a no-brainer, and people on this forum can either refute or agree with me, like Max, and some others perhaps, that actually LIVE THERE in the US Southwest. If these particular states have serious issues unadressed by our own Feds. and their unresponsive acts, what else are they supposed to do? Let it continue into infinity? Constitutional or not, as the future will tell, this deserves the American public's attention. No, not us Michiganders? Ok then who? Ok, the states involved mostly, yes. But, it's a contagious situation, where these illegals go anywhere USA after entering. Could the double homicide in Ludington on 4/28/10 be connected to illegals? Maybe not, but ya gotta wonder, stabbings? In our Ludville? Gross and lacking sense of jurisdiction for this type of crime, imho.

[Dave]

All Arizona did was back up the law that already exist at the federal level, only difference is Arizona would actually enforce it. Its hard for us that don't live in the border states to really know what its like there. We can only go by what we hear and read.. in some cases they say crime has steadily risen to the point that in some places crime has increased by 400%. It's said that the closer you get to the border, the worse things get.

Regardless of if the Arizona law actually goes into effect, I hope that it does prompt the federal government to finally get off its butt and take care of the immigration issues that have faced our nation for decades. Maybe they can finally finish the fence project that has taken decades to complete.

Like I said before, i'm all for people coming to America... I have a friend in the Philippines that would love to come here but its just not an easy process, nor cheap... she's willing to wait though until such time that she can finally make the trip. I have another friend in Norway that's been here already and is looking to come back.. not sure yet if she'd be coming for a vacation or to stay awhile.. hopefully the latter.