New Speed Limits for Scottville?

[XLFD]

Just a few meetings after the issue of whether the City of Scottville should maintain its own police department and whether they actually enforce speeding laws in the city, the Scottville City Commission tonight will take up the topic of whether to raise the speed limits near the outskirts of town. 

At issue is the limit at South Main Street between the PM River and the top of the river hill, ending just before First Street, and the limits on First Street headed west out of town starting at Reinberg. 

The Michigan State Police has recommended that the speeds be adjusted upwards at both locations, splitting both routes in two.  This recommendation comes after doing field research and learning what speed 85 percent of the vehicles that use the road go under. 

These traffic studies may often find that the posted speed limits are too restrictive, as well as determine whether stop signs are needed at intersections.  Oddly enough, sometimes removing unwarranted stop signs or setting realistic speed limits is the safest way to approach traffic problems.

As the last link noted, federal and state studies have consistently shown that the drivers most likely to get into accidents in traffic are those traveling significantly below the average speed. According to research, those driving 10 mph slower than the prevailing speed are more likely to be involved in an accident.  The vast majority of drivers will not go faster than what they feel is comfortable and safe regardless of the speed limit.  Numerous studies have come to the same conclusions that when the speed limits are raised, the speeds actually driven are not significantly affected.

Yet, even when such facts are provided, good people (especially those serving as public officials)  still worry about raising the limits, even when such studies warrant it.  In the City of Ludington Daily News (COLDNews)article provided below this analysis, the city manager of Scottville (who is married to a Scottville police officer) offers her own analysis, which according to traffic studies, is dead wrong.  But let's look more closely at each proposed change.

Perhaps least controversial is the First Street stretch, where the move to 35 mph on the Reinberg to the curve section is just sensible since there is really no residential units or foot traffic along the road.  Without the curve at the west end, traffic would conceivably be going much faster on this stretch both ways.  Similarly, the stretch going north-south on First Street between the curves has one farm house positioned along its length, and traffic goes the rate noted strictly because of the curves at either end forcing them to slow down. 

Traffic is very light on this section of road, and the main traffic issue would be people navigating the low-visibility northern curve too fast from either side and getting out of their lane, which could become dangerous if a motorist on the other side is doing the same.  It seems more logical for the speed limit to be the same for each stretch due to the minor difference in 85 percentile speeds, plus it will cut down on signage, so why not have 35 mph be the benchmark?

For South Main Street, I offer my authority as someone who lived three houses up from the river hill for a good twenty years of my life, frequently walking down to the River Park area and back, and/or crossing Main Street at Fifth Street.  The person who asked for this study lives three houses further up, and likely believes that the current rates are unrealistic. 

Scottville City Manager Williams thinks that the First Street study is reasonable but believes that on South Main Street "raising the limit will only increase the issue (of going faster than the limit)".  As noted, raising speed limits has no effect on what speeds drivers will drive over a stretch of road.

As for what she considers a safety issue, she is once again being an alarmist.  During my time in Scottville, and since that time, this stretch of street to my knowledge has not experienced any accident where speed was a contributing factor.  It has even became much safer in recent years due to the addition of the walkway from Fifth Street down to the river, and is thus not such a hazard for pedestrians who had to walk on a steep bank just off the road.  Crossing at Fifth Street is easy whether the cars are going 35 mph or 55 mph, as you can see down the hill, there is no visibility issue. 

                                     South Main Street looking north from the bridge.  Can your car scale that hill at 30 mph?

Furthermore, the hill acts as a natural decelerator for traffic coming into Scottville and there is no residential homes in the stretch, so 45 mph does not only seem reasonable to me, it also seems reasonable to 85 percent of other drivers, many who probably are like me and need the little extra speed just to get up that hill with their older cars.   What would be safe is that the current limit, which is 15 mph below the 85 percentile speed be raised so the few that actually go slower because of irrationally signed speeds, are less likely to cause future accidents

Beyond the hill, the study shows that the existing limit 30 mph is the standard between First and Fifth Street, which mayhaps shows that the current speed limit there is realistic.   Only time will tell what will happen, but you can make your feelings be known at 5:30 PM today and at later meetings.  A special thanks to Jim Durfee for recognizing that the posted speed limits seemed way off the mark.

                                   South Main Street looking down the river hill.  30 mph, seriously?!

COLDNews article:  Should the speed limit be raised on First Street and South Main Street/Scottville Road?

The Michigan State Police recommended yes for both spots studied.

City Manager Amy Williams said for First Street, yes, it’s easy to agree the limit should be increased, since it is not a residential area.

The recommendation is for 35 mph on the east-west portion from Reinberg Avenue west and 40 mph on the north-south portion between the curves.

Williams does not like the recommendation the study shows of upping the limit on South Main/Scottville Road. It calls for 45 mph from the south side of the Pere Marquette River Bridge to Fifth Street and to 30 mph from Fifth to First streets.

“I’m opposed to it,” Williams said. “And if I lived there, I’d be even more opposed to it.”

People do go faster than the limit, she said, and raising the limit will only increase the issue.

There is a visibility issue in the area of Fifth Street with people driving over the hill.

Having traffic travel faster there is a bad idea, Williams said.

“It’s dangerous enough,” she said.

She was surprised by the recommendation and said it doesn’t take into account the real-life issues there with hidden driveways, kids, dogs and a canoe livery business in the area.

That area, as Scottville Road becomes South Main Street, has too many extenuating circumstances, she said.

Commissioners will decide how they want to proceed.

They meet at 5:30 p.m. Tuesday at City Hall. There is no time-frame on the decision, since the city asked for the studies, which were at the request of resident Jim Durfee.

Police Chief Don Riley said he sees three options:

• Disregard the speed study recommendations and leave the speed limits the way they are.

• adopt the recommendations in their entirety.

• adopt portions of the recommendations and leave the others as they are.

Michigan State Police Hart Post Sixth District Traffic Services Sgt. Doug Roesler commended the city for being proactive in “establishing realistic speed limits within your city. Numerous studies have show, and continue to show, speed limits based on the 85th percentile result in the safest environment for motorists and allow for enforcement efforts to focus on the truly egregious violators.”

The commission meets at 5:30 p.m. Tuesday at City Hall.

http://www.shorelinemedia.net/ludington_daily_news/news/local/artic...

[Jasper]

The whole issue is beyond comical, to say the least!!!  How much time was spent by the MSP studying this?  

Yet, a citizen of Scottville has attended Scottville City Meetings complaining about drivers in areas around the schools driving above the posted speed limit, and this gentleman's concerns have never been addressed!  In numerous areas around the various schools there are not even sidewalks, where kids have to walk in the streets, to and from school!

Laughable at best! 

Oh well, the City of Scottville's Chief of Police even admitted the SPD do not enforce the speed limit, by not handing out tickets for speeding.  Rather, the SPD sit and hide making it look like they are doing something, in there big fancy 150 MPH police vehicle!  LMAO!!!

Where was the SPD when a security alarm went off over the week-end in the City of Scottville?  MCSO responded to it. 

So, what purpose does the Scottville Police Department serve?  

[Jasper]

Often times Amy Williams(Scottville City Manager) appears to believe she is in control of what is best for the City.  She disregards the input from the Citizens' of Scottville.  She appears to be very domineering during the Commission Meetings! 

Another question?  Why did it take the State Police to conduct the study for this?  Obviously, the City of Scottville PD have so much on their plate(sarcasm) they could not fit this "Traffic Study," into their so busy schedule of doing absolutely nothing, other than hiding and sitting in their high speed police vehicle!    LMAO!!!  

[Jasper]

How many Police Officers' are on the payroll in Scottville?  Of course, The City Manager's is one of the full-time employee's.  But, what exactly do any of them do?  Mason County Sheriff's Department or the MSP respond to the citizen's calls.  

Afterall, the COS does not want to upset the children if mom or dad get pulled over for speeding.  Chief Riley's explanation was a hoot at the Commissioner's Meeting a month and a half ago or so ago!  One has to view the YouTube video of that meeting!! 

[stump]

Maybe they don't have a working radar unit. I have noticed while visiting Scottville that the traffic on 10-31 seems to be going quite fast. Mostly big semi trucks. Going through the down town area you need to go slow as the newer quad cab pickups stick out farther than cars. I don't see that as a problem though.

[Jasper]

City of Scottville has radar in their squad car. For how much the City spent on that cop vehicle...it is equipped with a radar unit!  Chief Riley even stated "his department gives warnings, and does not want to issue violations out of fear!  

Seriously,,, go view YouTube videos posted by XLFD or Ed Hahn from the City's Commissioner Meetings.  Ed Hahn, a City Commissioner has recorded the last several months or so of these Meetings.  To view them... they are listed on his personal FB page.  The City of Scottville in their non-transparency do not have them available on the City of Scottville's web-site. 

[Willy]

For a city the size of Scottville it would make sense to me to have a maximum speed limit on all streets of 25mph. Creating a hodge podge of varying speed limits can be confusing. At 25 mph it would still only take minutes to travel from one side of town to the other and the slower speed would make for a much friendlier place to bike. Larger cities must move a large amount of traffic much further than small towns so varied and faster speed limits make sense for those communities.

[XLFD]

That has some merit, but Scottville is a traditional 'crossroads' town which changed when the bypass came along, along with the nature of travel on the two roads that go through the heart of town.  Traditionally, entry into town from either side would have you drop down to 40 mph on the fringes of the city limits where there was little development or residents, then proceed through the town at 30 mph.  That still is the case on US 10 from both ways (east and west), but has disappeared on Main Street/Scottville Road.  It is/was a smart way to handle traffic through town and a good compromise between safety and traffic flow.  The study shows that a 40 mph limit to the south will make sense for both safety and traffic flow, but as I saw last night, officials don't want to embrace the heresy of raising speed limits for safety.

The rest of the residential city is at 25 mph as far as I know, but the areas like Johnson Road and West First Street should probably be considered separately due to their 'rural' characteristics.

[woodsman]

XLFD  Just so you know the original request for speed raises was only for First out to the old dump. It is believed that the COS chief added South Main onto the study and who knows why. After talking to the person who lived 3 houses north of where you lived he only cared about that stretch out to the dump because the COS police sat for hours by the dump entrance waiting for cars that never came.

[XLFD]

Thanks for that information, woodsman.  I presumed he had been interested in the South Main portion since its more in his neighborhood.  At the meeting, however, he made clear that he thought the traffic in his area moved way too fast, and the lack of enforcement of the existing speed limits was a problem. 

The overall consensus of the meeting was that the 30 mph limit between the river and the hilltop should either be left untouched or reduced to 25 mph.  I'm sorry, but it's insanity to believe that 85% of the traffic that's currently going 44 mph or more up the hill is going to change their habits and go 20 mph less. 

You start trying to enforce a 25 or 30 mph limit where the established 'normal' rate is 44 mph, you will start getting those accidents caused by people traveling slower than the norm that was pointed out in the article.

But alas, this is counterintuitive and public officials and most members of the public just won't believe its the case no matter how many traffic studies showing otherwise are left available to them.  To them stop signs and low speeds are safe, even if they are unwarranted.

[woodsman]

   How did the normal speed get to 44mph ?  I guess that further pounds home the fact that COS police is not doing what the are paid for and took the oath to do. Regardless of the speed posted it needs to be followed.

[XLFD]

A little bird told me that the speed limit up and down the river hill was lowered from 40 mph to 30 mph near the turn of the century due to some regulation that wasn't dependent on doing a traffic study, I find that easy to believe since I was surprised at the 30 mph signs there now.  I can recall cresting over 40 mph on my bicycle speedometer just coasting down that hill in the past.

Before the meeting I surveyed both First Street and South Main Street.  After taking my foot off the accelerator at the sign at the top of the hill, I coasted.  My vehicle first decelerated to about 27 mph before it started accelerating descending the hill in earnest, and got to about 38 mph.  To stay within the speed limit, you have to apply brakes while coasting, which is a waste of good brake pads and only works against safety as your focus is deflected towards your speedometer.  Dangerous and costly over time.

I then came back the same way and tried to keep at 30 mph going up the hill (fortunately nobody was behind me).  I came to the realization that my car was working a lot harder than it needed to be, and once again my focus was deflected away from the road in order to keep under the speed limit.  The gradual slope at the top of the hill, as I have said before, is a natural decelerator, and the recent study indicates that 85 % of motorists slow down 'naturally' by 14 mph between climbing up the hill and traveling between Fifth and Second Streets, even though the posted speed limits are 30 mph throughout this whole length.

For those who think that raising the speed limit up and down the hill by 10-15 mph will make people travel at least 10-15 mph faster than they currently are, that just won't happen.  Just like doing the catastrophic tactic of lowering this speed to 25 mph, won't make most people traveling 45 mph now travel any slower.  It will just make it more dangerous because some will try to follow the 'unnaturally' slow rate. 

[XLFD]

BTW, that's ridiculous that the Scottville Police would place any emphasis on that area of First Street.  The curves dictate that people slow down, and the northern corner has signage for 15 mph on either side because of the visibility issues and the threat of running into a stray deer.