Do you pay any form of Taxes Mr. Rotta? Do you have a job that pays you a salary everyweek or two

[Wanda Marrison]

Just wondering and for clarification.

[snide]

This is absurd that an elected official would post something like this...... I  WILL be having words with the next Council member I see or the mayor when possible. There is no excuse for this and you should either step down or be repremanded/censored........ Ms. Marrison, you are a disgrace to your office and the City of Ludington as a whole.

[XLFD]

Snide,

In Wanda's defense, she is making her point of view known as regards me and the City and our dispute over the public's right to view public documents without all the nonsense displayed by the FOIA Coordinator and his offensive line of seven City Attorneys, and their campaign of disinformation and smear tactics. 

If any of the male City Councilors would actually speak up instead of tacitly agreeing with the stance of Kaye Holman by their silence, you would probably be amazed at their lack of knowledge of the FOIA and their duties to the citizens who deserve open governments without all the obstructions.  But they're safe behind the skirts, so why bother displaying their elitism and ignorance of the law?

[snide]

Tom, while you are to be commended for taking the high road,why let yourself get assalted by these folks....?  Wouldn't it be nice if elected "officials" actually took the same high road...?  There is NO excuse for a City Council person to "talk down" to or about a CITIZEN ---you know, the people they are supposed to represent. It lacks professionalism. PERIOD. If she doesn't want the critisism, don't take the job (and the check that comes with it)......again, I WILL be speaking to someone about this.

[XLFD]

Each nail that gets driven into my flesh, just further proves many of the points I have made over the last four years.  I seek information that should be available, I look out for ways to make our City safer, and I am treated like a persona non grata by the out of touch aristocrats of City Hall. 

What really saddens me is that I may have jinxed Ray Finholm and Bill Sorokin who drowned in Lake Michigan just three days after my City Council speech where I displayed two people who likely died from City policy, even though the City was effectively blameless for their boatwreck. 

[AQUAMAN]

Wise words Snide, so many thanks for your insight too. Not really rocket science though to come to these obvious conclusions, or is it? LOL.

[CLFD]

Many of us who voluntarily visit this website are home owners, land owners, and business owners who do pay taxes, and in many cases it is a substantial amount of taxes. If that 3ft high and counting stack of papers is accurate then it is the taxpayers who are footing the bill for the so called fishing expeditions.

In light of the fact that the taxpayers are footing the bill, coupled with the fact that Tom claims to be doing it as part of a so called public service, then I believe the questions to Mr. Tom Rotta are valid.

I can only assume that the general attitude here against the council woman for asking two simple questions of a person who knowingly put himself into the public spotlight is indicative of the truth about the matter. The taxpayers are paying for another person's hobby.

The public has as much right to know how much FOIA's are costing the taxpayers as they do the right to have access to FOIA's. Council woman Marrison is be commended for asking the questions.

I am becoming familiar with how XLFD's business is conducted on this website, and will now wait for the backlash against me for offering my opinion regarding the questions asked as the subject of this thread.

[XLFD]

CLFD, what really should bother you is that two requests I made regarding two downtown addresses that had applied for and got several grants paid for by the taxpayers made up at least half of that large stack of papers (if that stack even had prior FOIA requests).  These two requests had non-exempt records that I came in and inspected and scanned with my own equipment-- no need to make extra copies.  These records were also quite revealing. 

Holman saying that there was someone at City Hall working 15 hours a week to make copies and a City Attorney working an extra 10 hours a week  is complete fiction, as is most everything else in her presentation.   Be upset about that; I'm just an indigent (point, smirk) citizen interested in exposing corruption in the local governments.  You may feel free to speculate on my motivation, as I will do so for you. 

[CLFD]

XLFD

I will speculate upon your motivation the same as the council woman did. Obviously you took personal exception to her speculation though.

My motivation is simple. I would like to know what benefits you have provided the taxpayers that justifies thousands of dollars in extra labor that the taxpayers ultimately pay?

If you disagree with the amount of extra costs alleged then please show how much they actually did incur. So far I have not seen that from you and I am really very interested in how much you think your numerous FOIA's have cost the local taxpayers.

[Willy]

CLFD

Please explain why you think the FOIA's requested by X should cost the tax payers anything. Remember the information has already been gathered, filed and  paid for by taxpayers. Explain why any citizen, even yourself, should have to file a FOIA and pay for the privilege of receiving public information that you have already paid for. Study the term FOIA for a minute. Don't you think "Freedom of information act" is an oxymoron. If you must file for public information under this "act" then it definitely doesn't represent any freedom I am aware of. Especially in a Democratic Republic. As far as citizens paying employees to gather the information, wouldn't you agree they are already being paid to do just that?  Don't you agree it is their job to handle incoming and out going information? So why the added expense? It's to bad you can't step back and see how silly all of this is and how Neanderthalish  the Council and Mayor are acting. 

[CLFD]

Willy

Somebody has to pay for the extra costs associated with FOIA information! Would you rather everybody's taxes went up to offset the additional costs for retrieval and review?

I do not necessarily agree with paying for it either. But it is what it is and why should Ludington taxpayers be responsible for the extra costs associated with retrieving all that information just so one disgruntled citizen can play big fish in a little pond due primarily to his own personal vendetta? If Tom Rotta was actually accomplishing something then I might feel differently, but what has he accomplished that is favorable to the taxpaying citizens? Seems to me a lot of wasted time and money.

[Willy]

CLFD

You haven't explained why there should be any extra costs. The information is already there. Why would anyone have to pay for it. Can't you see the FOIA's and fees are being used to deter citizens from requesting information. Most folks think it's to much of a hassle. Did you ever wonder why LDN pays no fees for information?

[CLFD]

Willy

I have read the FOIA wording very carefully and it allows for reasonable costs. I am not saying I agree with it but it is what it is. That is not my issue here. My issue is the added costs that Tom Rotta is heaping upon the local taxpayers via his alleged FOIA requests that have resulted in a 3 foot high and counting stack of documents and the associated labor hours necessary for local government to retrieve and review.

You make some valid points. Please show  documentation where the LDN has requested as much info as Tom has and not had to pay for it. If you are able please also show how much Tom has actually had to pay for. Works both ways!