Breaking News: Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head

[Dave]

Democrat Gabrielle Giffords, a Rep from Arizona was shot in the head at a community event. Witnesses have reported hearing up to 15 shots. Injuries and fatality reports have fluctuated with reports saying that Giffords passed away although at this point, its now being reported that she is still alive but in critical condition. Its also been reported that 4 people did die in the shooting, including a child. Reportedly, the gunman approached where Giffords was speaking to a couple when he yelled something and opened fire. Other then saying that is was a male that was the gunman, nothing else that I have heard has been reported as to who the guy was. 

Giffords sounds like she would be described as a blue dog democrat (she was a former republican), fiscally conservative and a gun owner. Had she been in my district, I could of seen myself voting for her possibly.

Anyhow, the story is unfolding as we speak, surely we will know much more by this evening.

[J.B]

Too bad it was the same now a it was in the 60's.  He would have been in a Mental Hosp.  not on the streets and able to do this.

[Willy]

The liberals are trying to spin this into propaganda before the facts have been presented. News talk shows on TV are already trying to connect this fool to the Tea Party and Conservative Ideals. I heard one idiot saying that Arizona is full of hate because of the Tea Party. I hope people are not foolish enough to believe such nonsense. The next thing will be a push for more gun control laws by the liberals.

[AQUAMAN]

Hopefully the truth will be known soon, the only report I have is that this sick, warped, punk, only 22 in age, had some illiteracy issues with the school system in this congresswoman's district, and he is totally illiterate from his actions of a nature that no forum worth a shXX would ever support, now and forever more. Ring True for you MARY A.??? Or ya gonna say we did it again, along with Rush and Sean? This is NOT what this TORCH forum is about AT ALL Girly! Or is your comment something a BGW type individual, or he himself,  has implanted into your mind? Sad!

[Max]

"The next thing will be a push for more gun control laws by the liberals."

 

Here it comes RJE:

Carolyn McCarthy readies gun control bill <--click

What a load of crap!

[Willy]

Liberal legislatures always have a knee jerk reaction. There are around 43,000 automobile deaths every year. Around 90,000 people die in hospitals from medical errors. I don't hear an outcry to ban cars or hospitals. There are around 11,600 gun homicides in the U.S. every year. Yes that's to many but outlawing guns is not the answer. In England where guns were banned 3 times more people are killed with knives than illegal guns. That fool who shot those people in Arizona could very well have used a motor vehicle to accomplish his twisted agenda. I read somewhere that Scotland is trying to band glass bottles and mugs in bars because  people are getting killed and injured by people using them as weapons. How silly can this get? It won't be long until the Brits and neighbors will have to ban hands, feet and teeth to prevent all injuries.

[Willy]

Go easy on Mary. She only voiced her concerns and opinions.

[AQUAMAN]

Right RJE, sometimes our anger and disgust with these feely-good, communists, socialist, warped individuals should just be cast aside, in favor of WHAT? Their libelous, defamatory, insane remarks off the cuff as a concern/opinion/statement/for who? These, imho, are the same individuals that are KILLING this NATION! It's Freedoms! It's very Step by step, piece by piece, day after day, their trivial SHIXX! They want to warp and condescend us all into oblivion, to STFU. Well, I for one won't go to those gallos peaceably. You're going to have to grab me by the gonads, fighting and kicking to the very end, then slice my throat and head to silence my free thought process. Is that what it's all ABOUT MARY A.???????????????????? What you should be doing is mourning the sad and tragic deaths of the innocents that died as a result of a crazed and immoral citizen that has no excuse for this type behavior, and the congresswoman that's future is in question, not the participants of ANY TALK FORUM, especially THIS ONE! Get a hold of YOURSELF! and with it a new LOOK ON LIFE! And maybe most importantly, try to change the LAWS that govern the fact that INSANE individuals walk amongst us and act out in violence everyday, and no one cares, and the laws now protect them more that the sane, WHY? Because we must PROTECT these insanes, and not put insanasilums in use anymore, it might look and feel bad to the rest of us. This BS has gone on way too long, and until the LAWS change to put them away from the rest of us, the same scenario of events will repeat themselves forever. In other words, kill the cancer at it's source! As for McCarthy, another knee-jerk reactionist that is also dead wrong in her knee-jerk legal petition. Guns and cars and weapons don't kill people, people that pull the triggers kill people, simple as that!

[Willy]

The liberal / progressive as well as some conservative politicians  have an agenda and they will lie and deceive folks so they can get their way. Mary, to some extent, has bought into some of the liberal sides propanganda but she's willing to discuss her ideas and thoughts here on this forum and I welcome that. I don't want her to quit posting. Maybe some day she will see the light and change some of her views. Until then it does no good to get down on her because she is just as concerned about what is happening as you and I. She just has a different point of view.

[Mary A.]

Thanks, RJE. I didn't expect to be raked over the coals here. I thought all opinions are welcome or at least tolerated. I think Aqua already has me tried and convicted in the court of the Torch just because I said something he did not like. I don't go by labels - I'm not a liberal, I'm not a conservative. I'm just an individual who has feelings that may not jibe with everyone here on this forum. Does that make me a bad person?

[XLFD]

I think your views were very valid and thought provoking the other day, Mary, and as I had limited time and no canned response, I thought about it over last night.  The gunman could have trained his murderous hatred towards a schoolful of children or a stadiumful of spectators.  He was trying to make some political statement here, but it is disjoint from normal politics due to his skewed thinking.

His mental imbalance could have been been fueled by liberal propaganda , libertarian propaganda, or by anything his sick mind wanted to glom onto.  The congresswoman may have ticked him off in the past by not responding to what he thought was a good and valid question at a public forum.  When looking at the rationale of a senseless act, one tries to cover the bases of what was the trigger. 

There are forums that are hateful out there, unfortunately we even cross that line at times due to our free speech guidelines, and the intensity of emotion such as a story like this evokes.   I believe Aquaman thinks you have indicted talk forums and free speech outlets as a contributing factor here, and I think he is mistaken in that regard.  I think you rightly pointed out that it is something to consider.  In his mental state, the gunman could have attached himself to just about anything.

 

[masonco]

I've not made it here yet, but no it does not make you a bad person.  60 minutes is discussing this tonight, as will other "news programs" in the near future.

 

How can the guilty take responsibility if they never did. Excuses and drugs are what are raising our children. Now that I've said that, there are more ways to look at this.

 

Once they closed mental institutions and gave the mentally ill people rights to not take their medications, police and mental health institutions can only hold a person for no longer than 48 hours. If the patient does not want further treatment they do not have to stay or even take medications.

 

We may know a person is off their meds and unstable, but legally we can not keep a person  hospitalized nor can we force them to take medications. It is illegal now unless there is absolute proof the person is a danger to himself.

 

While I am on the soapbox, it is proven that violence begets violence. The people prone to harm others or themselves were taught this as they grew up. Often they do not know any other coping skills. What has society been teaching our young during the last decade?

 

They do not have to take responsibility for their behaviors (ADHD is misused and used for a child who never heard the word NO carried through.

Look at computer games, internet sites children have access to. Often they glorify the bullies and violence.

Look at the schools...where is respect for authority? Rather teachers fear lawsuits so allow the kids to run wild.

 

My biggest blame? P A R E N T S who do not want to bother teaching kids right from wrong and who allow TV and internet to teach their kids values. 

 

To summarize? Who is at fault?

Mental health restrictions sabatoging treatment.

Parental neglect in raising their children

Media

Fear of government interference because kids "know their rights".

 

Let's not blame any person or political party for this. Put the blame where it belongs starting with parental apathy and fear of interference by child abuse investigators if they do punish the children. We've gone from extremely strict parenting to no discipline. Parents need to work together and with the schools to get back to the basics with discipline somewhere in the middle.

 

Now that I've said my piece, I am not sure when I'll have an opportunity to get back here so ttyl

[Max]

I don't necessarily disagree with you mansonco, but at the top of the list should be individual responsibility.